Tweetybird88 Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 I've been working with plastic shells, for a while and from what I hear if you have the time, paper is the way to go. I have plenty of time, so can some when give me some kind of tutorial as to how to "paste" my shell. I tried googling but to no avail. Is there any other big difference between paper and plastic that I should no about? And finally Is the burst charge different in paper?
Bug_X Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 I've been working with plastic shells, for a while and from what I hear if you have the time, paper is the way to go. I have plenty of time, so can some when give me some kind of tutorial as to how to "paste" my shell. I tried googling but to no avail. Is there any other big difference between paper and plastic that I should no about? And finally Is the burst charge different in paper? http://30-06pyro.tripod.com/3006samateurep...hnics/id13.html This link was posted at the old forum, by 30-06. / Bug
Mumbles Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 Thats a pretty good tutorial. Another good tutorial is on passfire.com It is a paid subscription site, but well worth it. There is a wealth of information there, as well as many many handy tools. As for the differences. The main difference between paper and plastic is definatly the burst. Plastic shells need a much harder burst charge to preform the same as paper. I personally use primarily paper for everything. Plastic for testing and aerial fireballs. Plastic has less confinement, and I don't like to have to pick up the shards afterwards. Anyway, depending on the size of ball shells you'll be making I would suggest H3 or KP for the bursting charge. Both about 6:1 on rice hulls, or puffed rice in the case of larger shells. Paper shells give better symmetry as well compared to plastic. I think you will find yourself impressed with paper shells after you get used to them and dial the bursts in. To me, the extra prep time is worth it. Side note, I use paper tape to paste now(different from the passfire method) and love it. Cuts the pasting time from days to like 45 minutes for 15 layers on a 6" shell. It doesn't work well for anything under 5" though. I can force it with 4" shells, but thats the lower limit really.
Tweetybird88 Posted March 6, 2007 Author Posted March 6, 2007 Another question about these shells (I posted it in this topic since I have alot of questions but don't want to flood this section) Can I add something like a serpent, salute or Go-getter to a round shell,or is this really reserved for canister shells? If I can, is there something I should know about doing it to make it work?
rocket Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 You “can” put things like serpents, salutes ect in round shell but its not preferred as you cant fit many of the effect in they shell.
Mumbles Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 There's an interesting story from Lloyd Sponenberg in Best of AFN 5 about how he was able to make an 8" ball shell with interior contained bottom shot. As far as inserts in ball shells, it is maily contained to large ball shells where the shape of the insert is less restricted. Short cylinders are an exception. Roughly the same height as ID. Pillbox stars, go getters, comets, crossettes, etc can be made to work alright in ball shells. There isn't really a trick to loading. I personally prefer to load them in to the shell on their sides. It takes up less room, and prevents rattling and such.
Tweetybird88 Posted March 27, 2007 Author Posted March 27, 2007 To continue my research I have one more (hopefully last) question. I have no idea what kind of paper to be using for paper. I don't know the size I should use or what in god's name is virgin or unvirgin and what is 70 pound vs 40 pound and the like. So what should I get for a pasting job and could anyone point me in the right direction?
Mumbles Posted March 27, 2007 Posted March 27, 2007 This is hard to answer. It really depends on what size of shell you're making. Virgin kraft is first run kraft paper. It's made straight from tree pulp. I think it can contain up to 5% recycled or something. It has a more distinct grain, and is stronger than recycled. The recycled variety is sometimes called bogus kraft. The weight is mass per ream. I think the standard ream size is 500 sheets of 24x36". The higher the weight, the thicker and heavier the paper. The weight corresponds conveniently to thickness. 70lb is .007" 50lb is .005" 30lb is .003" etc. 70lb is too thick to be used on anything less that 6". I'd suggest 30 or 40lb anything smaller.
mormanman Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I have a question on breaks charges. I know you can use bp for 1" plastic shell but what about 1"x2" canister shells? or a 4" canister shell?I'm working on a 4" shell of shells canister shell and I don't have any flash or rice hulls.
NightHawkInLight Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I have used BP on grass seeds for some of my 3" cans. I usually give it a small kno3 flash bag for a boost though.
Mumbles Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 You must have done absolutely no research at all on canister shells if you're really asking that. In the traditional methods for a standard break, black powder is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS used to break canister shells.
mormanman Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Ok. Nighthawkinlight made a video and he used flash so I was unsure. Thanks though.
NightHawkInLight Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I still will use a BP core, I simply have a small 1g flashbag on the end of the spolette/fuse.
mormanman Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 So why would you need a flashbag? And does anyone have any tips on spiking a can shell? I tried last night and it looked like poop. Bytheway is the a minimum size for spiking or do you do it for everything?
Mumbles Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Like I said BP is used in traditional methods almost exclusively. I personally don't build traditionally though. The flash makes the shell break harder. With normal sized shells (3"+) no flash is needed for a good hard break off of BP though. Flash bags help a bit with plastic shells and small diameter shells. Any canister shell gets spiked regardless. It may take some dialing in though. Some small caliber insert shells may only need to be spiked vertically. With small shells, it's hard to make it look pretty. With 3" and up, it's no problem. The key, for me at least, is off center spiking. It's a pattern one follows around the shell that prevents buildup around the time fuse. For shells smaller than 3", there arn't enough verticals to make a hole for the time fuse, and it ends up building up anyway. Also, the angles are too steep, and often the string will fall off. The best tip I can give you for spiking is to mark out your vertical spikes in pen before hand to get them all even. I've never had a real problem doing this. I would also suggest getting good string. If you go to walmart, they sell hemp jewelry cord in the arts and craft area. It's about $3 to $4 a roll, but very worth it. My breaks have improved considerably since I've started using it.
mormanman Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 I'm trying cotton string that I use for black match right now, I'll tell you how it goes and if it looks good submit it in the compitition. Thanks.
pudidotdk Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Flax twine should be one of the best spiking threads. I've got a roll (not big, but big enough for my needs).Will try it whenever I continue making stuff.
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