Storing Pyro Chemicals

[schroedinger]

Obvious reasons, are 100% what MrB said above, (he was just a lot faster to reply).

Also food containers are very dangerous if you have kids around, they shouldn't be able to enter your work area at all, thats right, but you know how things sometimes can get more worse than one ever considered.

We allready had people here on the forum, to report that they had situations where adults started to eat their stars. Also a proper container doesn't cost much.

Like it often get mentioned, making something foolproof, the fools just get more foolish

[MrB]

Like it often get mentioned, making something foolproof, the fools just get more foolish

When you make something foolproof someone just invents a better fool. Yeah. I usually fight those people with free condoms.

 

It's not that food containers would be bad storage. It's great storage, since it's made to be next to airtight, leak-proof, not to open when it falls over and so on. It's just inviting the wrong people to put their hands on the stuff by suggesting "hey, candy / food here"

As i said, it's not that i actually live by the rules my self. It's bad practice, but still i do it. It's one of the reasons i'm looking in to getting some of those Gamma seals, i could store "bulk chems" and 5 kilo bags of stuff in those, splitting fuels, oxidizers, metals and so on, from one and other.

B!

[gun410]

When you make something foolproof someone just invents a better fool. Yeah. I usually fight those people with free condoms.

 

It's not that food containers would be bad storage. It's great storage, since it's made to be next to airtight, leak-proof, not to open when it falls over and so on. It's just inviting the wrong people to put their hands on the stuff by suggesting "hey, candy / food here"

As i said, it's not that i actually live by the rules my self. It's bad practice, but still i do it. It's one of the reasons i'm looking in to getting some of those Gamma seals, i could store "bulk chems" and 5 kilo bags of stuff in those, splitting fuels, oxidizers, metals and so on, from one and other.

B!

Not to sound like a brat but I do research and I was just making sure that it's right because not every thing online is true

[MrB]

Kid... Pretty much everything you've typed in, and clicked the "post" button for, on this forum, have shown a lack of understanding basic concepts, massive misunderstandings, and over all a lack of the will to make the effort to figure it out.

Hell, even the post you quoted, and answered shows it. There wasn't anything directed at you, and nothing that really needed an answer. And your answer... It has pretty much nothing to do with my post.

 

I've said it before. Get your parents involved. The amount of knowledge and wisdom stored on this forum is staggering, and whats in the head of a few of the guys here, is nothing short of amazing. Have mom / dad start a thread where they ask around about basic safety tips and reading, and resources for a starting out, blossoming pyro of young age. The amount of help and guidance you could get is limited by the risk members of the community is willing to take. It pretty much goes like this. You blow your self up after getting advice you didn't follow. The police start an investigation, which shows that you got advice from here. They turn to the admins and demand user info of the members who gave said advice, and proceed to identify / prosecute said members. Not to mention that the admins might get in trouble as well, just for not having moderated the forum more, and removed such advices. Peoples comfort of life, perhaps sadly, is more important to them, then your need for advice. I for one, is done trying to help you with pyro. I'd gladly help your parents by pointing out risks, needed gear and safety measures, reading material and so on, but the bottom line remains nobody is going to spoon feed you, and very few is going to risk getting in over their head to help you when you over and over prove that your not really willing to take in what your "told".

 

Anyway, if you want to respond to this... Don't. There isn't anything to talk about. And especially not here. This thread is about storage. Chem storage, mostly.

B!

[schroedinger]

A tip for you guys. If u have a lab supplier arround, they often have boards with items they want to get rid off, often there are platic bottles onnsale too. Thats where i got mine for about 0.7 to 1.3 each, made of HDPE. These are sturdy and really airtight

[gregh]

A lot of the stuff we use isn't really viable as food, might even be downright unsuitable for human digestion. Something like KNO3 in a food supplement canister looks like a harmless white powder, but KNO3 isn't very good for you if you happen to eat it. Storing it in food canisters might very well mean that you contaminate your food with what ever was stored in the canister at one point, down the road. Or rather more likely, that someone else re-purposes your "empty" canister for food storage.

 

I sort of agree. It is bad practice to use food containers, be it refrigerator storage, or as i do, shake powder and supplement canisters. It's not something that should make your stuff go bad or anything, it just increases the risk of hapless by-passers getting in to your stuff, and getting them self in to trouble. Labeling helps, i should work on my habits in that area...

B!

Actually, potassium nitrate has commonly been used as a food preservative for hundreds of years and is still widely used today in parts of the world. However, in the spirit of the context of your post, I would hate scooping a couple spoons of it on a bowl of cereal either, thinking it was sugar.

[schroedinger]

Yes, kno3 is used in meat production (to give the meat a reddish color). But the ammounts which are getting used are small and most of the nitrate gets convertet.

[Bobosan]

<bump>

 

I've been asking about PETE for chemical or composition storage. Below is a list of permeability properties posted in a photography forum.

 

This lists oxygen permeability, per unit of thickness, of various types
> of plastics. The lower the number the better, meaning less oxygen would
> pass through a container:
>
> Low Density Polyethylene (LDPE): 510 (food wrap, grocery bags)
> Orientated Polystyrene (OPS): 355 (Styrofoam)
> Polycarbonate (PC): 300 (eg Lexan)
> High Density Polyethylene (HDPE): 185 (Milk, juice jugs)
> Oreintated Polypropylene (OPP): 160 (Margarine tubs)
> Polyvinylchloride (PVC): 8 (Cleanser bottles)
> Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET): 6 (Soft drink bottles)
> Polyvinyldichloride (PVdC): 0.6 (Saran wrap)
> Ethylene Vinyl alcohol copolymer (EVAC): 0.1 (interior coatings,
> gasoline containers)

Note that PET (aka PETE) seems to be much, much better than polycarbonate. (At
least so far as permeability is concerned.)

[Dino61]

when storing magnesium shavings I was told you have to take your magnesium shavings put them into a bucket and fill it with mineral oil til its totally submergerd it stops the oxidation keeps it waway from the air. Just keep it in a dry cool place outside the home possibly buy a fire proof cabinet install out in your back yard away from home. when you need it for fire starter just clean it off mix it in with cotton and parifin wax for fire starters. you can do the same with moose droppings just dry them out soak them with parifin magnesium is most excellent cause it burns at 5000 degrees and will insure your fire starts..... I researched this out because I too ran into a great deal and bought 5ibs of magnesium shavings for fire starter.

 

what are your feelings on this

[FlaMtnBkr]

That would definitely keep them fresh. But I highly doubt the vast majority of magnesium shavings, and powder, are stored under oil. I have a drum of magnesium powder that is from the 40's and only has the metal drum protecting it. There is a paper thin layer of discolored metal at the surface that has some oxidation and everything under it is a nice silver color. I also have close to 50 lbs of mag shavings from a milling operation. They are double bagged inside of cardboard boxes. Last I checked they were still nice and silvery but it's been a few years, though I was told about ten years old when I was given them. They don't have as many uses as powder does so I don't check them often.

 

How fast the magnesium oxidizes probably depends on the particle size and shape. If a fine powder the oxygen will get blocked off. If shavings that hold each other apart and create many 'tunnels' then the bulk will oxidize if exposed to oxygen as it travels through the material.

 

I would try to vacuum seal it if you don't want to deal with the mess. If you think you will be opening it up a lot then break it up and vacuum seal in smaller amounts and have a small bag that you pull from.

 

Zip lock makes vacuum seal zip lock baggies that are reusable. There is a little plastic pump that you press over a one way valve that pumps the air out. This might be a good way to have a small amount that you use from while the bulk remains sealed. Or you can drown in oil. You just need to keep air out though it will take a while for the magnesium to oxidize to the point it is no good. Especially if the chips have some thickness to them.

 

On other metals the oxide layer provides a layer of protection. But magnesium oxide is soft and doesn't make an oxygen proof barrier so it will continue to oxidize until it is all converted to oxide which is white in color.

 

You can also coat in Dichromate which makes a durable layer and will slow down the oxidation if not completely stop it. Only problem is that the potassium Dichromate that is used to do this is pretty nasty stuff so you need to wear protective equipment any time you handle it.

[eMikey]

Does anyone see anything wrong with storing individual chemicals is something like this?

 

https://www.google.com/search?es_sm=93&biw=1014&bih=656&tbm=isch&q=hermetic+glass+storage+jars&revid=2121167880&sa=X&ei=sZZnVfTJGMTHsAXT2YHYAw&ved=0CCIQ1QIoAQ

 

 

[Wiley]

Just don't drop one

[GMetcalf]

It totally depends on the chemical and where it's going to be sitting. I wouldn't for example store Parlon or Potassium Perchlorate in a clear jar if it might get exposed to sunlight because that can break both those chemicals down.

[mikeee]

Glass containers should only be used for chemicals that require the use of glass.

Too many glass containers in a shop area invite the potential of broken shards of glass

going everywhere when it breaks. It is no fun working with pyro comps and finding a piece

of glass that finds it way into your hand while mixing it with your hands.

 

I have been using 1-gallon empty coffee canisters with zip lock bags on the inside. Empty

sour cream and chip dip containers make good containers for small amounts of chemicals. A

black sharpie marker can quickly be used to label container contents.

[MrB]

I'm fond of "training supplement" canisters. The see-through ones are generally PET, but better yet, the solid ones are HDPE. They are made to be air tight, but quite honestly, you really should double bag the stuff inside these, both so you can store some silica-gel with it, but also so it prevents contamination, if you happen to "rotate" the jars.

 

I've had the jars double as milling/ mixing-jars, but the walls are to thin to be efficient for milling. Lately i've had some of these crack under milling, so i can't recommend that.

Clarification... Jars like (most of) these:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l6b37l3Q6E1qa5a9k.jpg

Picture bravely stolen, sorry, linked to, and found by Google.

 

Anyway, they come in a bunch of shapes and sizes. Quite handy, if you have someone in your surroundings that eat the stuff, since they trash a number of them over time.

B!