black powder

[Merlin]

I use commercial hardwood airfloat to make pulverone a slow burning form of bp to fill the void between stars. I have found ERC pet bedding to be excellent for fast bp. Just make a TLUD which is very simple to do. Actually the resulting charcoal is so soft due to it being shavings you can just weigh add S and NO3 and mill. I only use lead to mill with. SS is too expensive for me. I wish we could use marbles as they are lighter or even ceramic media but the possibility of a ball mill explosion negates that. Lead or stainless ( the right kind of stainless) is the way to mill.

[starxplor]

Ceramic media is great for single component milling if you plan to screen the chems together and need them all very fine. It is not recommended for full BP mix milling as even the purest advertised media has some impurity that most people do not want to risk an explosion over.

[justvisiting]

I don't think ceramic media is great, but it does work. It's the least efficient media I've used. I used it for black powder and had no accidents, but it did degrade over time. For milling charcoal, stainless steel works a little better than lead. For milling BP, lead works a little better than stainless steel. Nowadays I would choose stainless steel over ceramic, even if I did 3 component milling. I feel it's the best overall choice, if a person could have only one kind of media.

[Merlin]

As I have said I use lead for 3 component milling.

However if I could get 40lbs of the correct stainless balls I would switch straightway!

[speedtrap]

Thank you for the suggestion that I lose my marbles. I will go back to the lead, I've been checking on SS 1/2" and 5/8" balls, I might have found a source that won't break the bank. I'll let you know Merlin when I get a price.

That last batch of BP I made with the solvent is fast. I think my inconsistency is due to the moisture in the powder. The dryer it got the better it burned. I'm back to measuring in grams for my lift. I screened out the fines and that's what I've been using. 25 grams takes a 3" paper shell to about 400 ft.

So if I use a larger granular size would that make it pulverone? For burst powder instead of the rice hull mix? The larger size slows it down I would think. Is there an advantage to one or the other?

 

Thanks,

David

[Merlin]

It is best to dry Chen's before milling and if you want granulated powder for your shells when milling is complete wet powder with water just until it will forms ball in your hand. It must not be too wet. Push and rub through a #4 screen. Dry right away in a hot box (igloo cooler with heat ducted in from a ceramic non- sparking heater)( there are many designs) continue drying overnight. Next day you will need to take the dryed granulated BP and screen all of it to grade into particle sizes using a stack of appropriate screens. There will be mostly 2FA but also 3,4,5 and some dust. You will use only the 2FA for lifting your shells. The purpose of all this is to get the best size BP for lift 2FA. This is necessary for consistency in lift. MCRH - BP rice hills are used for burst in larger shells. Polverone is NOT hot granulated BP. It is slow granulated BP usually screen mixed raw chems or very lightly milled. It is used to fill the voids between stars. This serves to give the shell structural integrity and also aid in ignition. It burns well but doesn't not add much explosive force. You are on the right track. If your BP was hotter 25 grams would send a baseball a 1000 feet. However the thing that matters the most is being consistent. Your 25 grams sending a 3" shell to 400' is perfect. The reason I use MCRH is because Im lazy I can make lots of it quickly Ina cement mixer. I use it with booster in 4" shells and though most people don't I use it for lift as well. Keep your finished BP hermetically sealed with dessicant. Even so after a year I will dry the portion Im using just to be sure it performs correctly ( consistent) Edited October 31, 2018 by Merlin

[speedtrap]

Thanks Merlin.

If I'm using 25 grams for a 3" shell how much would I use for a 5" shell? I can't find any baseballs that big to test with.......

[Merlin]

Use the baseball to get a baseline. If your BP is hot enough you won't need 25 grams for a 3 inch ball shell. A baseball weighs similar to a 3 inch ball shell. It represents a 3" dummy ball shell. I make cylinder shells so a 3" cylinder weighs more so I use around 25 grams. My 4" shells weigh around 800 grams. The rule of thumb is you add 1 oz of lift for each pound of weight over 1 lb. Up to 10 lbs. So for my 800 gram shell I use 48 grams. Not quite the rule of thumb because my powder is hot. I have no idea what a 5" cylinder or ball shell would weigh.. If made a 5" cylinder weighing 1200 g then I would test a dummy shell of that weight by starting with around 70-75 grams lift. I don't make anything over 4 so the question might be better answered by someone who does.

[Mumbles]

I use the ounce per pound rule that Merlin mentioned for 5" shells. Round up to the next half ounce or ounce if you want to be extra safe. It sounds like your BP is fine.

 

As an aside, I like a smaller grained powder for smaller shells like 3". 4FA is my preferred granulation. I've had sort of mixed results using 2FA with smaller or lighter shells.

[speedtrap]

Well good news with the BP. I have the screens now to separate the granules to size or grade. The 4FA which is held by the #12 screen is some fast powder. Yesterday I loaded a 3" mortar with 24 grams and one of my baseballs to check the powder for lift for my 5" shells. Trying to get a baseline on paper. I had 2 people to watch and time the baseball and myself too. What a lift off !! I lost sight of it the others never saw it and we all ran to our cars to be safe from the falling ball. Clock still running and waiting for the landing............ To the moon was the outcome of that one. I do my testing at a very open paved or concrete area of 6+ acres and can usually hear the landing and recover the baseball. Not this time. The launch was loud also. So as Merlin does, I will try it with 2FA held with the #8 screen and maybe I will lose some of the bang for the buck. I don't know if a real 3" shell would survive that blast.

Thanks for all the input on this. You guys are a great help !!

More to come.

 

David

[dagabu]

I have no doubt that a 3 inch shell would survive the lift. Make sure your mortar is straight up and calm conditions or slightly pitched into the wind so the ball returns to the mortar or as close to as practical.

[Arthur]

As well as increasing the lift quantity you should increase the lift grade as the shell size gets larger. While a 2 or 3 inch shell will work well with 4FA lift powder 6 and 8 inch shells work well with 2FA and 16's work well with cannon powder larger than 0FA.

[jake556]

Hey everybody i have a question. Please i hope you can weigh in on this.

I want to mill black powder and then granulate it into ffg size granulated black powder for the use in Shotgun shells.

I want to for example add 125grams of black powder mixture with the addition of 2.5grams of dextrine powder into the mill.

Would 3 hours of milling with lead balls suffice for the granulated black powder to produce the needed velocity for the shotgun cartridges ?

[Mumbles]

Depends on how good your mill and materials are. A good mill with good materials will make hot BP easily in that time frame.

 

Consistency is key in reloading. The highest speed isn't always necessary. Reloading loads are also usually pucked and broken up. Dextrin isn't really required.

[dagabu]

I agree. Dextrin in black powder results in fouling of the bore and has less power. Fast/hot powder is needed for shotguns, the powder space under the wad is limited so pressing and corning is almost mandatory to get the proper pressure needed to propel the shot.

 

Personally, I would go for speed (other cowboy shooters call it 'snap') for shot and keep meticulous records of what you did to get there. Writing it down is the most important part of consistency IMHO.

[jake556]

So i have chosen to add 2% dextrin to the powder and i tested it and i think it burns fast enough.

I've made a big batch and want to granulate it now.

What do you guys recommend, should i use 100% distilled water or 75% distilled water with 25% added denatured bio-ethanol to activate the dextrin ?

Edited December 28, 2018 by jake556

[NeighborJ]

Jake I would use 100% water. It really doesn't save much drying time by adding the alcohol and alcohol lessens the effectiveness of the already lean binder content.

[jake556]

Jake I would use 100% water. It really doesn't save much drying time by adding the alcohol and alcohol lessens the effectiveness of the already lean binder content.

How many hours would the granulated black powder need to dry usually if it's just laying on newspaper in the open inside a room temperature environment without much air circulation?

[NeighborJ]

If it is spread real thin it could be dry in a day. It also depends a lot on humidity and airflow. I usually granulate it and forget about it for a few days just to be sure. It just needs an elevated breathable surface, window screens work the best.

[dlking59]

Ok this might be a stupid question but what are the thoughts of using a food dehydrator to dry wet BP. My 2 dehydrators are (supposed) to run at app. 150 degrees and circulate the warm air. I will check with a thermometer for the actual running temp. I have also heard of putting in an oven at low temp with the oven door open to circulate the warm air. Any validity to this or is it hogwash.

[NeighborJ]

The idea here is to dry the grains as quickly as possible at a reasonably cool temp. If you think about it, the KNO3 that is dissolved in the moisture is more likely to dry as large crystals in an excessively warm environment. As temps increase that water can dissolve a lot more nitrate than it can at room temp. In other words, it can slow the powder down some as well as increase the danger level of the entire process. Ovens give off radiant heat which can create very hot surface temperatures of the BP. Dehydrators don't seem dangerous but there is still the possibility of ignition from thermostat contact arcs.

 

Patients is the way to go with all things pyro.

[Arthur]

The Royal Gun Powder Mills Waltham Abbey used a huge building heated with hot water pipes to finally dry BP (in barrels!). A dehumidifier can help as can a small heater but everything powered has it's own added risks -which we usually like to minimise. It's really important to eliminate any heater with exposed electric elements.

[dagabu]

Plan on running a swab every shot.

[speedtrap]

I wonder what parlon would do the cleanliness of your barrel. I use solvent and a touch of parlon in my BP. I have learned about the moisture content in the mix even if I use no water.

I thought this might speed up your process a little. On a warm day 70 deg + - drying it in the sun on screens I can have usable BP in 4 hours.

[NeighborJ]

The chlorine released from burning parlon would corrode and destroy the gun. You can't clean it enough to prevent the corrosion. Bad idea.