making magnalium without a gasburner

[Nitrato]

I thought aluminum beer cans would work good once ya got past the beer part. I have heard that cans were pretty pure but never really checked it out.

 

Yeah, I've think the same thing just before starting to cast.. But the problem is that you probably will need to melt your beer cans and make nice ingots (slag-free) with it to use later in MgAl production, since it will give vast amounts of slag which can be trouble if making small amounts of MgAl like in my try above.. Not sure though about larger batches.. I just have heard long time ago (IIRC, but not sure that is true) that melting pop/beer cans can result as much 25-50% of slag.. =[

 

Next time I will try to make magnalium with these beer cans, since is the most cheap (free actually) OTC source of Al and anyone can found in vast amounts.

Edited July 27, 2008 by Nitrato

[marks265]

In my old lead slinging days with the 75 caliber I would make my own round balls. When melting the lead I used parifin wax to slag off the lead. What would one use for AL?????

[Nitrato]

AMMONIA smell

 

I just noticed now that my small chunks and MgAl powder smells like ammonia... Evident Mg/Al nitrides formation from the unremoved bits of slag..

 

So, how dangerous would be to use this slag-impure MgAl in comps, stars , etc and store them for any noticeable amount of time?

 

I'm worried about this magnalium in pyro compositions.. How I do know that the comp will be safe using MgAl instead of Al or Mg? I've heard that magnalium is safer than magnesium (water being a more 'agressive' enemy in the latter case) and aluminium (base environment sensitive), but is there anything that will not be too safe to use MgAl instead of Al or Mg?..

 

Thank you all for the input.

 

EDIT: I also noticed a different smell along with NH3..A very weak smell that make me remind acetylene (!).. How in the hell this would be possible? Even with the mad hypothesis that some charcoal get into and reacted to form some sort of metal carbide(s), Im doubt that C2H2 forms anyway.. So it would be my own nose joking with me =[

Edited July 27, 2008 by Nitrato

[FrankRizzo]

AMMONIA smell

 

I just noticed now that my small chunks and MgAl powder smells like ammonia... Evident Mg/Al nitrides formation from the unremoved bits of slag..

 

So, how dangerous would be to use this slag-impure MgAl in comps, stars , etc and store them for any noticeable amount of time?

 

I'm worried about this magnalium in pyro compositions.. How I do know that the comp will be safe using MgAl instead of Al or Mg? I've heard that magnalium is safer than magnesium (water being a more 'agressive' enemy in the latter case) and aluminium (base environment sensitive), but is there anything that will not be too safe to use MgAl instead of Al or Mg?..

 

Thank you all for the input.

 

EDIT: I also noticed a different smell along with NH3..A very weak smell that make me remind acetylene (!).. How in the hell this would be possible? Even with the mad hypothesis that some charcoal get into and reacted to form some sort of metal carbide(s), Im doubt that C2H2 forms anyway.. So it would be my own nose joking with me =[

 

What was your aluminum source? Your magnesium source?

Edited July 27, 2008 by FrankRizzo

[Mumbles]

Calcium carbide is the standard source to generate Acetylene. Wouldn't suprise me if Magnesium could be used for the same thing. It's possible, but I wouldn't be confident about saying that is what is happening without getting a whiff myself.

[Nitrato]

FrankRizzo,

 

My Al comes from Al wires ("pure" Al) and the Mg from some sort of engine blocks, all from scrapyard (unfortunatelly the engine block part comes yellow painted, and I wasnt able to remove it totally) .. I think that this engine block should be be alloyed with some Al, or just pure.. I remember Tentacles saying that the Al or Mg content can not be superior 5% either way, since will be much more brittle, so useless for anything (except for we, that wants EXACTLY this =).. Also I remember reading in some metallurgical book that any silicon content can be very 'detrimental' for any Mg alloy, but the book doesnt gave more details.. Im wondering that this mean that our MgAl alloy would be even more brittle with some Si.. Or then silicon would cause the reverse effect due to master alloy being formed with aluminium (???)

 

I dont have perchlorates and the titanium here is VERY VERY expensive (so , no good long-lasting PbO2 electrodes..), but have made some chlorate.. But chlorate + NH3 is not a very good thing to have inside comps and stars, so my fear of using my magnalium in any chlorate based coloured star or comp.. =[

 

There is a way to get rid off the slag of many small bits of MgAl without wire brushing and etc? Im thinking in just put them in plain water to react with these nitrides, but not totally sure..

 

 

Mumbles,

 

Yeah, what you said make sense since Mg metal certainly would be more reactive than CaCO3 or CaO used in calcium carbide factory.. Although Im not sure that the heat I reached would be sufficient to convert Mg and carbon to carbide.. Maybe some of the ink of the Mg surface (painted) decomposed to give very fine reactive carbon (???)

Edited July 27, 2008 by Nitrato

[Swede]

This is a really interesting thread. I have a small foundry setup with a gas-burner furnace that should melt just fine... I just need to find some magnesium.

 

My main question for those that have done it, how do you process the magnalium ingot? Break it up with a hammer, then ball mill with steel shot or similar? Is it that brittle that it will be ground to a useable mesh with no problems?

[Bonny]

My main question for those that have done it, how do you process the magnalium ingot? Break it up with a hammer, then ball mill with steel shot or similar? Is it that brittle that it will be ground to a useable mesh with no problems?

 

 

When I process the MgAl, I break up the ingot in a tin coffee can (on the floor) with a pc of steel shaft. I usually attach a plastic bag over top to keep bits from flying out. Once broken up, I ballmill with steel bearing balls 1/2" to 1". I open the mill jar every hour or whatever to allow the material to oxidize...not sure if necessary, but best to err on the side of safety. the MgAl is so brittle it can easily be milled to -250 mesh (my finest screen).

The coarser stuff can be used for fountains and in comets.

[tentacles]

I grind mine in a meat grinder, and then sieve it, you get a nice range and you can coffee mill or ball mill anything larger for a bit to reduce the size however much you want.

[jwitt]

I grind mine in a meat grinder, and then sieve it, you get a nice range and you can coffee mill or ball mill anything larger for a bit to reduce the size however much you want.

 

Sorry to dig up this old thread...

 

But I'm curious after having bought a pound of magnalium, and really liking it immediately (just playing around with a little last night) but I'm already hating the price!

 

Long story short, I won't have a spare mill jar and proper media for milling metals for a while (going to get the mill and one jar/media load for BP next week). And I'm not sure how small a jar I can put on the mill I'm getting, and I'm guessing I'd be running a grossly undercharged mill jar with a small amount of MgAl in a 6" jar.

 

So- I see, in the quote above, "you can coffee mill or ball mill for a bit to reduce size" but I'm not willing to consider throwing a metal powder (specifically a Mg alloy) into a coffee mill without knowing the dangers involved. Heat, friction, spinning blade, air whizzing around while finely dividing this substance...being a complete amateur know-nothing, this sounds like a really really hot fire waiting to happen in my hand.

 

Ball milling a batch for days on end might not be an option for me either, as I live in town, but will be doing pyro work at "the farm" in the boonies.

Edited March 31, 2010 by jwitt

[FrankRizzo]

Jwitt,

 

A mill should never be operated in you hands unless the material being processed is immune to processing hazards. What I do is tape down the button on the coffee grinder, and use an extension cord to cycle the power. Short bursts are ideal. Make sure the blades of the grinder are rust-free, and you shouldn't have any problems.

Edited April 1, 2010 by FrankRizzo

[gordohigh]

Sorry to dig up this old thread...

 

But I'm curious after having bought a pound of magnalium, and really liking it immediately (just playing around with a little last night) but I'm already hating the price!

 

Long story short, I won't have a spare mill jar and proper media for milling metals for a while (going to get the mill and one jar/media load for BP next week). And I'm not sure how small a jar I can put on the mill I'm getting, and I'm guessing I'd be running a grossly undercharged mill jar with a small amount of MgAl in a 6" jar.

 

So- I see, in the quote above, "you can coffee mill or ball mill for a bit to reduce size" but I'm not willing to consider throwing a metal powder (specifically a Mg alloy) into a coffee mill without knowing the dangers involved. Heat, friction, spinning blade, air whizzing around while finely dividing this substance...being a complete amateur know-nothing, this sounds like a really really hot fire waiting to happen in my hand.

 

Ball milling a batch for days on end might not be an option for me either, as I live in town, but will be doing pyro work at "the farm" in the boonies.

 

A mill jar can easily be made from a piece of pvc with a compression plug. You'll need to replace the bolt on the plug with a nylon bolt as you don't want steel inside the jar. I used an "inside" glue on cap, the kind for testing DWV pipe for pressure for the other end of the jar. A SS rod can be easily cut up with a thin metal blade and a 4in grinder for your media, I had some 3/8 rod but a little bigger would be ideal. You'll be surprised that it doesn't take very long to mill magnalium, took me 3 hours last tiime I did it and I think it turned out to be around -200 and worked perfect for dragons eggs and red/green metal fueled stars. I know some have successfully milled in a coffee grinder but I don't think I would but, that might just be me.

[jwitt]

Thanks for the information!

 

These things are now cut-n-pasted into the notebook.