take your shots now..

[boostedmx3]

so in being a def. newb or "boom3rz" as i have seen you guys say take your shots now as i went against the grain apparently..

 

so for years i have been fascinated with fireworks, this year on top of purchasing the 1.4 stuff i decided to go about making some small things to keep me occupied till the 4th..

 

well i went to you tube and of course the first thing that comes up is flash powder, which I find out later here that its prolly not the place for a newb to start.

 

anyway i went ahead b4 finding any forums and purchased some KCLO4 and some dark german AL.. the AL from amazon and the perch from pyrochemsource. now dont get me wrong i did quite a bit of research before actually mixing the two and i have safely made a few small batches of some seriously impressive flash powder.. and a few home made crackers for testing.. so go ahead flame away, let me hear it now cuz i dont want to hear it later..

 

well i bought some tubes.. a lot of tubes lol ordered 1/2 in ID thinking i would make a bunch of crackers, well they goofed and sent me a bunch of 1" ID tubes in various lengths from 2 - 1/2" to 6". now i know what your thinking "this guys going to kill himself". Im not an idiot and do not intend on making 6" flash bombs thats stupid.. the 2 gram crackers i made were loud i dont wanna hear 500g go off... nor do i want to have that much in one spot.

 

well my question is what projects could i do with the tubes.. Im not big on the rockets as i have had some sketchy exp. with the storebought "pro" made ones. I was thinking fountains/smoke bombs and maybe strobes, those were always cool.. now i have a lot of tubes.. about 100 or so with my 1/2" ones on the way still i dont want to make just kno3/sugar smoke bombs but i dont know if i want to mess with the KCLo3 just yet..


anyway i have almost no chems.. except the 3lbs of KCLO4 and 2lbs of dark AL.. what chems should i buy to get me the most bang for my buck without blowing myself up? hoping to get some good recomendations for a newb on easy and safe fountains that dont require a press or any special tools and maybe some good cheap smoke recipes too.. Im willing to buy chems no doubt but not trying to break the bank on making a smoke bomb either.. also wheres a good reliable source to buy the organic powder solvents at a resonable price if I do decide to play with KCLO3.. in small relatively safe amounts at least..

 

 

also im a mechanic by trade so im good with my hands and have common sense.. even making my small 10g batches of flash i was wearing leather welding gloves and my old paintball mask just in case..

 

and excuse the grammer you'll never make me change

Edited June 1, 2014 by boostedmx3

[BurritoBandito]

You are right that flash is no place to start. You know that, and are asking for a better introduction to pyro. I will not take any jabs at you.

 

You have asked for recommendations of what to buy. I think most people are going to suggest that you buy KNO3, sulfur, and charcoal. Making decent BP should be your first step. With those three chems you'll be able to make: fountains, stars (shells), rockets, and even salutes if that's in fact what you're after. You'd actually be surprised at how many different things you can make with just BP ingredients. Pick up a copy of turbopyro from Skylighter.com and you'll see several good beginner projects.

 

As for the tubes, if you can't find a use for them post them on the AGORA here. I'm sure someone would be happy to take them off your hands. I think when you really start making things you're going to want to keep them.

[boostedmx3]

i appreciate not laying into me.. Im not trying to dive into the hobby head first just yet although making flash is a contradiction to that. would I be better buying black powder over making it if thats the case? just making black powder in itself seems to be quite the undertaking. Not planning on making my own shells any time soon as fireworks especially aerials catch a nice 500$ fine in my area. they sell the novelty fountain/smoke stuff so i figure i can get away with making some that are just a lil beter then what i can legally buy.

 

apparently from all of the formulas im finding tho it def takes a bit of a collection of chems to really do anything other then make big arse loud salutes. Go figure the easiest thing to make is the one frowned upon for newbs.

 

 

I really do plan on keeping the tubes I just was hoping for a few quick easy cheap projects to start with before i go and buy 20lbs worth of assorted chems.

 

also on a side note, being that i work in a shop we do a lot of brake work. machining brake rotors produces a nice fine steel powder as well as some larger flakes.. is it of any use? i figure why buy something that i can get for free.

[Bobosan]

Save the steel powder and pull out the large pieces. The steel is a good fountain component for sparks.

 

edit: since you are new at this you may want to get a fine mesh kitchen screen to remove the larger steel particles.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Bobosan

[boostedmx3]

and the guys at the shop thought i was crazy when i decided to fill 2 5qt oil jugs with the steel from the lathes..

 

so maybe run it thought a screen to seperate? what size steel powder could be used diff then the shavings? none of it is anywhere near as fine as the AL powder i have.. if anything the smallest peices are the size of sugar granules.

 

 

approx what size mesh screen would i need?

[Bobosan]

You could start with a cheapo kitchen screen from a Dollar Store. Think they are roughly 17-20 mesh. A wide range of steel mesh sizes are used in pyrotechnics....just depends on what device you are building and the effect you want to see. Larger particles produce larger and longer lasting sparks that may or may not branch out. Finer particles give a more delicate spark that branch many times. If you ever sharpen mower blades with a grinder, you'll see the type of sparks the steel powder would produce.

 

Steel powder can be expensive if purchased from a pyro supplier.

 

Here is a recent thread on iron/steel filings:

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/9660-cleaning-iron-filings/

[BurritoBandito]

I would never buy BP. Personally, I think that one of the most enjoyable things about pyro is learning new skills. Making BP is easy... Dialing it in to where you want it to be for different applications can be trickier, but that's why it's fun. Learning to make consistent BP that performs the same each time is rewarding in itself. You will be proud to see the devices you made function beautifully and know that you built them from the ground up.

[boostedmx3]

so what would be a super basic and safe bet to try my first fountain???

forgive me on the chemistry portion of all this... not my strongest subject back when i was in highschool.. but what in this could maybe be left out or sub'd if need be??? a

 

so the blue steel gerb

 

Ammonium perchlorate 65
Hexamine 10
Stearic acid 7
Copper carbonate 6
Steel, fine powder

none of these were on my list of things to get... should i just suck it up and call skylighter and tell them to send me a pound of everything???

 

and what would happen if i just packed some bentonite in the bottom of a tube then filled it with a mix of BP steel filings??? what does all this other stuff do in a fountain?? also is it safe to just use a wooden dowell to compress BP and steel filings??? or obv. this particular comp?

 

 

also just ordered 3lbs of KN03 from a member here... so a fountain comp with that as the main ingrediant would be a start

Edited June 1, 2014 by boostedmx3

[Arthur]

There are some good maroons on the uK PRO market that contain 0.13grammes of flash. bigger ones can contain 5grammes, - bigger than that is getting too big but bangs do have their place in pyro.

 

My suggestions;

Buy KNO3, charcoal and sulphur. buy a ball mill with media

 

You can then make black powder for rockets, shell lift and shell burst.

You can use all the low power powder (yes you will make some duff batches!) for fountains/gerbes and wheel drivers.

Other variants of the same chemicals make tiger tail stars and several variants.

 

So with the chems and patience to make BP you can have fountains, rockets and shells with stars inside.

 

WHEN that is mastered add chems to make colour comps and glitters and strobes.

 

Expand your skills, but do it gently. initially work with small batches so that accidents will be small

[nater]

http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks-fountain-plasma-cutter-kit.html

 

 

 

It is currently listed out of stock, however this kit am instructions is an excellent beginner project. It is an impressive red and silver fountain, small enough to be used with consumer fireworks in a backyard.

Edited June 1, 2014 by nater

[Mumbles]

I just posted a simple comp that might be up your alley in the following thread. You'll have to powder the chems, but no real milling involved. Brake turning with fine for this. There is a video too.

 

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/9592-ramming-fountian-comp/?do=findComment&comment=125740

[boostedmx3]

I just posted a simple comp that might be up your alley in the following thread. You'll have to powder the chems, but no real milling involved. Brake turning with fine for this. There is a video too.

 

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/9592-ramming-fountian-comp/?do=findComment&comment=125740

 

 

awesome thats perfect... i need to order some charcoal and sulfur anyhow to make some BP... this is exactly the kind of info im looking for..

 

now i have a LOT filings prolly about 20lbs available too me currently with more being made daily..

how big could i make this? or should make this? I would be using a 1"ID x 6" tube

 

i can make some tooling i figure to make the nozzle out of bentonite.. --how largs of an opening?

 

then i would just mix that ratio comp on a certain scale and just fill the fountain from the nozzle down to near the bottom and add another bentonite plug?

 

can i skip the wax on the filings part if i press it? and how much force would be needed?? like can i just lean into it real good or should i put it in my 10 ton hydraulic press?? (mainly used for pressing wheel bearings)

 

 

 

I really appreciate all the info guys and apologize if there are any stupid questions.. Just want to be as safe as i can..

 

 

on another note.. since I will be making some BP im going to get some fish fuse and make some mines.. seems to be the simplest although not cheapest way of making some small fun lowlevel works. theres plenty of you tubes on that.. however could i take it a step further??

 

take my 1" cardboard tube and the 3/4" tube they sent and basically make a shell out of it using the 1" for the mortar? and in the shell i could put the fish fuse and use the BP to get the tube to blow and light the fuse correct???

 

if so could flash be used in place of the BP in a small amount to get the burst and still light the fuse but also add a salute to it.. like maybe .5g of flash in a peice of tissue paper with a wick surronded by fish fuse in the tube capped at both ends with a wick coming out into a BP lift cup??

 

 

just kinda figuring it all out in my head let me know if anything wont work or would be totally stupid.. idk if flash could lite the fuse? whats the make up of the fuse can it be close to flash safely?

Edited June 3, 2014 by boostedmx3

[nater]

For the fountain, I have been making some using some tooling I have with a 1" long, 1/4" stainless steel taper pin. The tubes are 1" ID, 6" long. I press enough kitty litter so that the nozzle is just under 1" tall. The first increment pressed is green mix BP and the rest is whatever gerb comp I want. Finish with a good bulkhead.

 

The wax or linseed oil to coat the steel protects the steel from rusting. The potassium nitrate in BP will cause uncoated steel to rust quickly. You can use the steel filings plain, if you plan on building and shooting the same day. Otherwise, the steel needs to be coated with something to protect it if the gerb will be stored.

Edited June 3, 2014 by nater

[boostedmx3]

this place is awesome.. so much info

 

rusty steel vs non rusty steel.. would that change the color of teh burn as its changing the chemical makeup of the steel?

Edited June 3, 2014 by boostedmx3

[FlaMtnBkr]

It's just adding an oxygen atom, so no, the color won't change. But as it rusts the amount of sparks will decrease.

 

Also, I don't think flash will light the fuse. It might if the fuse is primed but will probably just rip the fuse apart.

[boostedmx3]

ok.. was thinking super easy combo shell.. might still give a shot just for the hell of it..

im going to order some sulfur and charcoal tmrw... without having a mill i want to get air float right?

would i have to add anything and granulate it for lift or could i just mix up the KN03 sulfur and airfloat charcoal and get good lift??? not to sure on the advantages of granulated and non.. correct me if im wrong but "meal powder" is just BP thats super fine right???


also ive decided if a few experimental peices go well im gonnna try and make a cake out of these tubes.. mainly a mine cake but im thinkin i could finish it with a bang... i would cut the 3/4 tubes down a bit in size as tey are way large for a salute in the size i would be feel comfortable making but how could i pack it tight without loading it with straight flash? lol put the flash in a baggie with a fuse and just pack bentonite or saw dust around it?????

i cut open a few wolf pack crackers and saw at least 4 diff comps in it.. reddish/orange, white, grey(flash) then like a lighter grey i thought the lighter grey might be flash/mixed with the white which i believe is the bentonite stuff?? whats th reddish orange filler that i find in all these consumer fireworks

thanks again for all the great info.. i will def be posting some pics and vids when my projects get rolling a bit

[BurritoBandito]

You'll definitely want the airfloat if you don't have a mill (which I suggest buying or making). Skylighters airfloat isn't really that great and without a mill you're gonna need some hot charcoal and fine ingredients to make workable BP. Screen screen screen. You are going to want to granulate, but it's not a difficult task. Just add a few percent dextrin (optional), dampen your BP to the point that it adheres together when you squeeze it, make it into a firm ball, and push it through a window screen.

 

In making salutes you don't want your composition to be packed, you want it nice and fluffy. You also don't need or want to fill the tube all the way. Honestly, I still think you should try and avoid the flash. You can make pretty decent BP only salutes with good enough confinement.

 

As far as the red orange powder... If it's what I'm thinking you're talking about it is inert. I'm not sure what exactly it is, probably some type of clay. I think it's just a filler, but I really don't know. I'm sure someone here will.

Edited June 4, 2014 by BurritoBandito

[nater]

The red stuff is the dirt outside the factory in China. It is a clay rich soil, free and easy to get.

[BurritoBandito]

Sounds like the soil here at my house. There's so much clay in it I've actually made an ocarina from it.

[boostedmx3]

i was looking at pyrochemsource.com for the airfloat.. 4$ a pound.. i got my perc from them, and maybe im just a newb but that flash is freakin loud..

 

 

what do you mean by hot charcoal??/ like fresh out the firepit?

[Bobosan]

"hot" charcoal as in makes faster burning BP. Check out the link below. There is a lot of good info for BP making and hot charcoal woods.

 

http://wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/charcoal_tests.html

[boostedmx3]

Awesome..

 

By the way the fire pit part was a joke..

 

How crucial is having super strong BP? I mean I'll be making mines and fountains this year maybe a few 3/4" canister fish fuse style shells just for the laughs

 

 

I mean I should be ok with just the pyrochemsource air float kno3 and some fine sulfur righr

Edited June 4, 2014 by boostedmx3

[Shadowcat1969]

Having strong/hot BP is nice, because it allows you to use less for things like lift. But if you have issues getting high power, you simply use more.

 

For burst, you can add a booster of slow flash or whistle mix if your BP isn't strong enough and/or you are breaking smaller shells (usually 3" or less).

 

More important than stong/hot/fast BP is to get a reasonably performing BP that you can replicate accurately. Having something hot that you can't make again isn't quite as useful.

[BurritoBandito]

Consistency is more important than making the hottest BP possible, but for lift you'll need it to have a little oomph.

 

Edit: Shadowcat1969 beat me to the punch.

Edited June 4, 2014 by BurritoBandito

[Mumbles]

For the small devices you've been talking about, you might need to use a reactive charcoal for the lift at least. You don't use very much, so you'll want it to be as potent as possible.