Nitrates

[Thezoranator]

Hey guys, I was wondering which nitrate worked better; potassium nitrate or ammonium nitrate

[nater]

The answer depends on what you are trying to make. However for the vast majority of pyrotechnics, you want potassium nitrate. One could consider potassium nitrate to be the most important chemical used in fireworks.

[pyrojig]

Please dont take this a me being a ass...... but why are you starting so many new topics on stuff that your should be reading about ?????????? This stuff is mostly basic knowledge ,and if you where to use the search function on the site. Im sure you could find relative info to post in as to not flood the site with meaningless posts. You are very un-descriptive (and many of your posts show this) as well as a lack of knowledge , and being young( which is not a bad thing), or just wanting to be spoon-feed. Please do some reading and get familiarized with some sound literature . There is so much free stuff out there from great authors .

Again please take this as a push to do your homework and not as a personal jab. I am glad your asking Q's instead of loosing fingers , but please post them is appropriate threads/ .

Edited May 21, 2014 by pyrojig

[psyco_1322]

Take this as me being an ass...... but you're an idiot.

 

 

 

[MrB]

Take this as me being an ass...... but you're an idiot.

Lets get facts straight. Your an ass.

 

We all agree, the dude / kid should do his homework. But which is better. He doesn't do his homework, and ask stupid questions here, where we can set him straight, or he asks stupid questions on a number of sites i know of, where the answers are likely to get him killed?

Lets clean up, and act as if we actually gave a damn. And if you don't... Just don't respond to threads like this.

 

Hey guys, I was wondering which nitrate worked better; potassium nitrate or ammonium nitrate

As have been indicated before, there isn't any answer for this question. It lacks to much info.

Generally speaking, KNO3 is used in everything from stars, to thrusting your stuff in to the air, be it by means of mortar tubes, or rocket engines, and on the way there, it was used as delay, burst, and so on. Virtually everything in a shell can have KNO3 in it. NH4NO3 isn't used for much at all. There is a few uses, but most stay away from it, since NH4NO3 is hygroscopic which alternatives aren't, or at least to a lesser degree.

B!

[Sparx88]

He speaks truth. Ammonium Nitrate has no uses in pyro that I'm aware of. And even if you did know about what it IS used for, you still won't find any info on that here. Unless of course you think you may have a shot at Mumbles giving you access to the HE forum.

 

And what has been stated already is that PN is used in pyro and there is a lot of info on that already you can find real easy. When it comes to getting into a hobby such as this, there are no dumb questions but bad research skills. A well thought out clear and concise question is something worth working on.

[MrB]

No use? Well... You can use it as a nitrate source when making KNO3. And there is at least a few stars, and some rocket engine composition using it. It's useful, to some extent, but... They aren't used in the same place, for the same things, so one isn't better then the other.

B!

[BurritoBandito]

@Thezoranator: Please PM me. I have some reading material that will answer a lot of your questions.

[Mumbles]

I hope you're not intending to pass along pirated literature.

[BurritoBandito]

I intended on sending him a few links to pyro articles (BP production etc.) and potentially turbo pyro, if the PDF is still available through Skylighter. I don't think that would constitute piracy, but if it does tell me, and I will refrain from doing so.

[taiwanluthiers]

Ammonium nitrate is very hygroscopic, meaning any pyro compositions you make with them is going to absorb water or never dry when wet. That makes it next to useless in pyro since wet compositions won't light reliably and metal powder can be degraded by excess moisture. Other than a certain composition rocket composition or a few other limited uses, the only use for AN is making things go boom, and that's not what this forum is about...

[ollie1016]

Has anyone tried substituting Ammonium Nitrate in for Potassium Nitrate in BP. Would be interesting to see the results.

[BurritoBandito]

Yes. It's called ammonpulver.

[taiwanluthiers]

Would work if you live in a bone dry place... in the tropical wetland of places like Taiwan, Florida, etc. forget it. That bp would turn into mush quickly.

[psyco_1322]

Lets get facts straight. Your an ass.

 

Isn't that pretty much what I said? I'm just tired of stupid threads for dumb questions that aren't even answerable. Kid's 13, he needs to go to school and learn, stop playing with chemicals and explosives. If he's not 13, then he's a troll, and that's not cool.

 

First things first, potassium nitrate and ammonium nitrate are NOT substitutes! You can't swap them out for the other in a formula, the only place you could use the other is in synthesis, and that's not really pyro. Just because it's a nitrate, doesn't mean it acts like other nitrates. Different oxidizers act differently.

 

Ammonpulver is not BP made with ammonium nitrate, it's an HE, and it has no use in pyro. You CAN NOT use ammonium nitrate to make BP. Firstly it's not going to burn right, secondly it's going to turn to black mush. Same goes with star comps, not going to work.

 

Also, if you are in the US, making your own potassium nitrate is just dumb. It's cheap and you can buy it from many places. You are going to raise a lot more suspicion trying to buy/find ammonium nitrate. At the end of things, it's going to cost more than if you had just bought the KNO3 to start with. Nevermind all the other BS you are going to run into while making it.

[BurritoBandito]

You're right psycho. Ammonpulver is NOT blackpowder. It's primary usage was as a propellant, though it can be detonated. Black powder is KNO3:C:S. Substituting the fuel or oxidizer for a different one creates a different composition entirely. For example KP uses KClO4 instead of KNO3. I think it was understood that what ollie1016 was asking was if anyone has ever tried an oxidizer substitution of NH4NO3 in BP.

[Thezoranator]

OH MY GOD! EVERYONE JUST SHUT UP! I dont care if you think im asking dumb questions because

1: there obvously no dumb because you guys take the time to answer them

2: whats the point of peing an ass? Is it funny to you? LOL

[Thezoranator]

Take this as me being an ass...... but you're an idiot.

 

 

 

Take this as me being an ass. You are a complete dick.

[Niladmirari]

Hey guys, I was wondering which nitrate worked better; potassium nitrate or ammonium nitrate

For what?

 

NH4NO3 very rarely used. Only: rocket motor, smoke, self-ignition composition (+NH4Cl+Zn+H2O).

 

KNO3 used everywhere

Edited May 23, 2014 by Niladmirari

[psyco_1322]

OH MY GOD! EVERYONE JUST SHUT UP! I dont care if you think im asking dumb questions because

1: there obvously no dumb because you guys take the time to answer them

2: whats the point of peing an ass? Is it funny to you? LOL

 

So why did you make this thread, when it doesn't make any sense? It's a dumb question because it makes no sense! I know you're only 13, but you should know what complete sentences are.

 

Well I pretty much answered whatever it was that you were asking.

[kpknd]

Stick with PN.

[ollie1016]

You're right psycho. Ammonpulver is NOT blackpowder. It's primary usage was as a propellant, though it can be detonated. Black powder is KNO3:C:S. Substituting the fuel or oxidizer for a different one creates a different composition entirely. For example KP uses KClO4 instead of KNO3. I think it was understood that what ollie1016 was asking was if anyone has ever tried an oxidizer substitution of NH4NO3 in BP.

Yes you have understood me properly. Just wanted to know if anyone had tried it! I'm all for different and interesting compositions.

 

Thanks

[MrB]

I have NO experience with ammonpulver, but from reading over the years, it's 85% AN, 15% charcoal, and thats it. It's supposedly a slow burner when laying free, harder to ignite then BP, and less sensitive to static electricity, friction, and shock.

Bottom line, it "should" be safe to ram, and also mill as a composition... But i wouldn't do it. And it's also not really clear what this single possible use would mean for the thread starter. All in all, i still think we lack information... KNO3 sucks for making ANFO, and AN is worthless as a replacement for KNO3 in BP. Since they aren't interchangeable, it sort of means, at least to me, one isn't better then the other.

B!