What flash powder?

[superspike23]

hi,

I'd like to make shells and store them for later.
In this case, what flash powder is the most appropriate?

[taiwanluthiers]

No flash powder is necessary if your blackpowder burst is hot and the shell is properly pasted. I tried adding flash to some and all it did was blow stars blind.

[schroedinger]

Better go for something like whistle or Benzolift to boost your shells

[superspike23]

it is for small 2 inch shell

[pyrokid]

Flash broken shells are legitimate. It's another way to do the job.

 

With proper storage, common flash compositions are perfectly stable. Remember that all varieties of Chinese fireworks are shipped across the globe.

 

I'd avoid storing chlorate-sulfur mixes personally.

[superspike23]

I do not use sulfur in my flash powder.
I use 50% KClO4 50% magnesium.
The stars are:
KNO3 90
c 58
feti 30
Sulfur 12
dextrin 10

I also use rice hull coated Bp

I just added 1.5 g of flash powder I try to isolate a piece of toilet paper.

But what would happen if the flash powder reaches the Rice hulls coated?

In this case sulfur will react with magnesium?

[LambentPyro]

I'd never store flash to begin with, in a shell, anywhere.

 

Actually I should correct that, people store slow flash boosted shells, but I use whistle and IMO, it has a better shelf life and stability than flash because of the metals (Mg, or Al powders).

Edited May 6, 2014 by LambentPyro

[BurritoBandito]

Yeah, I would personally use whistle. Flash is too bright and takes away from the other effects. If flash is used, I'd go with slow flash, and use as little as necessary.

[nater]

LambentPyro,

 

On what grounds are you making that statement? Please share your experience that proves your claim.

 

A shell built with flash when used as a salute or as a break booster is perfectly stable. Commercial fireworks often use flash, are shipped all over the world and stored for years without issues.

[FlaMtnBkr]

I would use plain 'ol 70:30 KClO4: dark Al. Not sure how great mg will store as it might slowly turn to oxide. But would probably be ok if used within 6 months.

 

But regular flash will last decades. Yes, it is powerful and dangerous and deserves respect. But it isn't the 'contact explosive' that people will make it out to be. It shouldn't be made by newbies because they won't have good safe techniques and also because they are most likely making ground salutes.

 

In this day and age, if that is all you are making, you could easily be charged with a felony and will be lucky if you aren't labeled a terrorist in the media. Just not worth the risks.

 

That said, flash has a legitimate place in pyro. And not just slow flash. Anyone that says different doesn't have much experience. Sure, you can choose not to use it, but that is a choice and nothing to do with how many fireworks are made. That said, there are tons of things that can be made without it or with substitutes.

[superspike23]

I would use plain 'ol 70:30 KClO4: dark Al. Not sure how great mg will store as it might slowly turn to oxide. But would probably be ok if used within 6 months.

 

But regular flash will last decades. Yes, it is powerful and dangerous and deserves respect. But it isn't the 'contact explosive' that people will make it out to be. It shouldn't be made by newbies because they won't have good safe techniques and also because they are most likely making ground salutes.

 

In this day and age, if that is all you are making, you could easily be charged with a felony and will be lucky if you aren't labeled a terrorist in the media. Just not worth the risks.

 

That said, flash has a legitimate place in pyro. And not just slow flash. Anyone that says different doesn't have much experience. Sure, you can choose not to use it, but that is a choice and nothing to do with how many fireworks are made. That said, there are tons of things that can be made without it or with substitutes.

 

Accused of terrorism?

I do not want to store the flash powder, only the shells that contain a bit.

[LiamPyro]

Personally, I have only just begun experimenting with shells. I have found that, as mentioned earlier, good black powder performs fine,

with no booster such as whistle mix or flash powder needed. I would imagine it would only really be used in larger shells,

although I have hardly any experience. Speaking of shells, does anyone have any good star formulas besides TT and C6

that use black powder chemicals?

[psyco_1322]

I'd suggest switching over to an Al based flash, the Mg is not something that stores well. You can start with 70:30, KClO4:Al. If you find it to be a bit too powerful for the application, you can start subbing out some of the Perchlorate with potassium nitrate. More nitrate, less power, tune it to your needs. It would work well to split it between the two hemis and dump it loose into the rice halls. You Al will play a role in the potency of your booster also, but any type should store well.

 

Another thing I'll note, whistle is probably more sensitive to friction and impact that plain 70:30. It's also just as dangerous from the perspective of an accident. Then there is also the fact that it likes to absorb water too, which might not be suitable for all environments. Personally, I boost most my ball shells with whistle, it does seem to be a bit more forgiving than hot flash. But I build rockets and whistle is something I always have on hand, so it's not an extra task for when I decide to make those strange ball shell things .

 

Another-nother thing, "slow flash" as it's been know to be made, with a brightish Al, will most likely have more light output that something made with dark Al. Most the time, in the action and excitement of the situation, you don't notice the little blurp of light from the flash. Sure you can see it all day in the video, but the live viewing is always different.

[taiwanluthiers]

I experimented with flash boosting shells and found the bp I make is hot enough that when I boost it, stars tend to blow blind, especially with more difficult to ignite compositions such as ruby red. Things worked fine when it's just meal coated rice hulls but I was kinda hoping for the same sound output as commercial class C shells (they really are loud for its size, they use a lot of flash too).

[boule]

it is for small 2 inch shell

 

Ah, building these small shells and getting a good burst out of them is really quite challenging. I presume you want to use flash in order to have a decent round and hard break?

 

Well, there are a couple of ways to accomplish that without having to resort to flash powder, that is, if your standard BP and a good confinement does not suffice.

- KP burst charge (Shimizu)

- H3 (contains chlorates, so watch incompatiblities)

- benzolift

- granulated whistle mix

- crimson powder

 

They all have their advantages and disadvantages and you may want to read up on them - all compositions can be found here in the forum or just employing your favorite web search engine.

 

If you want to use the flash powder in order to have more room for stars, just use a flashbag or wrap a strip of paper around your time fuse, fill the resulting tube and seal it with a drop of glue. Most people use just plain 70/30 perchlorate/Al flash which is less sensitive and more stable than magnesium based comps (and cheaper). Additionally, KNO3/Al/S flash could be used.

 

In terms of storage: perc/Al flash will still work decades after being put into shells or inserts, provided it was stored dry.

[LambentPyro]

LambentPyro,

On what grounds are you making that statement? Please share your experience that proves your claim.

A shell built with flash when used as a salute or as a break booster is perfectly stable. Commercial fireworks often use flash, are shipped all over the world and stored for years without issues.

On the grounds of MY SAFETY, you want to store flash? Be my guest, it's my safety and I will coordinate it to my beliefs, and certainly not to yours. To each their own...

 

Edit: I should also mention that people have been killed or seriously injured by BP, in my opinion extrapolating that to Flash keeps me away from even thinking about storing any type of Flash. Also I never specified what type of Flash either nater. Flash powder in general is much less stable than Whistle Mix (KP and Benz 7:3).

Edited May 7, 2014 by LambentPyro

[pyrokid]

I'm pretty sure that salutes have been made and stored for many years, Lambent. I'd argue that making the flash is far more dangerous than storing it.

 

Decisions regarding safety should be made based on facts, not opinions.

[nater]

Exactly Pyrokid. Once closed up in a shell, the dangers of flash are greatly reduced. Like all fireworks, handle them gently and avoud dropping them. However, remember that the forces the shells are under when lifted are greater than they experience with normal handling.

 

Making it is much more dangerous. The binaray method is much safer, but not always possible. Of course, whistle needs to be treated with the same respect of flash. Loose whistle, will do similar damage as a salute. Lloyd S has the videos to prove it.

 

With all that said, I tend to use whistle more, for the same reason as psyco. I usually have whistle on hand for rockets and it works fine as a booster when I need it.

[superspike23]

I am not a lover of flash powder.
If I could avoid it completely, I'd be happy.
I bought charcoal willow wood, I'll try adding the granulated black powder on rice hulls to see if that's enough.

[nater]

Most people use meal or mill dust to coat hulls rather than granulated powder. If you are making small shells, you might find that hot, granulated BP is all you need.

[LambentPyro]

I'm pretty sure that salutes have been made and stored for many years, Lambent. I'd argue that making the flash is far more dangerous than storing it.

 

Decisions regarding safety should be made based on facts, not opinions.

Again it's my safety, if it's out of my comfort zone, let me be. At least I am not just making Flash like a bunch of irresponsible hooligans on YT and I worry about my safety and others. At least give me credit for that.

[Maserface]

Again it's my safety, if it's out of my comfort zone, let me be. At least I am not just making Flash like a bunch of irresponsible hooligans on YT and I worry about my safety and others. At least give me credit for that.

Yet it's in your comfort zone to light homeade 4s on a residential street?

[nater]

Again it's my safety, if it's out of my comfort zone, let me be. At least I am not just making Flash like a bunch of irresponsible hooligans on YT and I worry about my safety and others. At least give me credit for that.

 

The issue is not your comfort zone, that is your business. If you are not comfortable working with something, don't do it. I won't judge that.

 

The issue is you spreading incorrect information as facts. You make claims, but lack the ability to back them up. That is irresponsible as well.

[LambentPyro]

The issue is not your comfort zone, that is your business. If you are not comfortable working with something, don't do it. I won't judge that.

 

The issue is you spreading incorrect information as facts. You make claims, but lack the ability to back them up. That is irresponsible as well.

IIRC, I didn't attempt to state a fact. I said what I'd do. Never said they should. I've heard of people storing slow flash. It is true that WM is a bit more liberal in it's handling and sensitivity. If you're going to try and lash out at me every time I make a statement anywhere on these forums, I am simply not going to respect you, it's very immature and I am not going to be challenged and insulted about the things I say all because we got in a political dispute a while back; almost seems like I'm being profiled.

 

 

Yet it's in your comfort zone to light homeade 4s on a residential street?

Yet that was such a long time ago, criticizing me on something so outdated really makes you look like a fool. Everyone starts off in Pyro with some type of error that they were not aware of; and if I am going to be told by anyone that they did everything right when they started Pyro, they're nothing but a liar. If you're going to harass me on things I had done wrong, just make sure you're at the very least doing it about things that I've recently done incorrectly. I should probably announce that I have moved the shoot site to a large open field right around from where I live. So maybe you should get your facts right and scroll down on the posts and see what I had to say in my defense on that topic on Fireworking. Just makes you sound like a muckraker.

 

Speaking of Fireworking, things are much less hostile and people don't attack you if you've done something wrong. They will assist you in trying to correct your errors rather than putting you down; seems like we're in High School on this forum. Best damn $40 I've ever spent.

 

Later...

[BurritoBandito]

I bet hindsight will provide an insightful mediation here...

 

Edit: allow me to remove my foot from my mouth. It appears he did not .

Edited May 7, 2014 by BurritoBandito