BP in Progress...

[Wiley]

I just got a new toy: Harbor Freight dual drum rock tumbler. I have a 40# sack of hard lead shot that I once used for noseweight in model rockets, but it has since been gathering dust, and will be turned into .50 cal balls. Once I gear it up as per the Skylighter instructions, I'll probably mill some charcoal with it to clean everything nicely and to get a "feel" for how it works. After that, I'll be able to make real BP with some homemade airfloat. I'm pretty excited .

 

Again, ponderosa (yellow) pine is all that grows around here. We have a small supply of cedar that we brought in from our last house where the stuff was practically a weed. Now there's just that little kindling pile worth of it. I've heard that ponderosa pine makes slower BP than the favored pyro charcoals, but is the BP made with it still better than Goex? If its even comparable, I think I'll stick with the pine, since its so ridiculously over-abundant.

 

Then again, there are lots of willow trees that grow by the nearby river, but I have no clue what type they are.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Around here, most willow that grows by water is black willow. A lot looks more like big weeds or under brush than trees.

 

I have found most of my homemade charcoal makes BP as fast as Goex. A lot is considerably faster with a good mill and methods.

[Niladmirari]

Pine good for TT, C6, C8, brocade. It has a resin. Burn slowly and shines brighter.

 

For ВР (lift) better: alder, willow.

[marks265]

Cedar will make a slower powder. If you make some of both the cedar and the ponderosa pine and the Ponderosa pine is much faster I would say that you're in the ball park. I have tried cedar but not the Ponderosa pine. In the end you will end up testing and keeping track of what works and what doesn't work for you. After a while it will be second nature as to what to do and will turn to more work than fun :-)

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

Don't expect your pine BP to perform better than goex. It won't happen, not even with white pine. It makes beautiful sparks, but isn't as fast. You can still use it for lift, you will just have to use more. I have a black powder optimization thread here which is right up your alley.

 

If you don't have access to black willow or paulownia, go to the pet store and buy the pet bedding shavings. Cook it using the TLUD method. Its very very easy to do. Use that stuff for lift and save your pine charcoal for spark production. Pine is my most favored charcoal when it comes to star formulas and prime, but as far as lift goes, it's not gonna perform as good as goex, it's too resinous.

[Wiley]

Good to know. I've heard tell of people using ordinary newspaper charcoal to make really fast BP for lift and break. If it really works as well as they say, why don't more people us it, since it's so easy to get?

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

It's just another man's opinion. I'm sure if it were a highly reputable source for lift, then I'm sure the pros would use it. It's just a cheap cop out. I'd be happy to send you some black willow charcoal to sample to get a feel for what top end charcoal will do so you can compare. Send me a PM

[Wiley]

I know the "hot" charcoals are more desirable for many different reasons, but right now, I want to shoot for consistency. Ned Gorski shows how BP made with an optimized ball mill of the type I purchase can create BP with commercial airfloat that outperforms commercial BP of the same granulation. I have several pounds of commercial airfloat coming in the mail on Monday, so I could always use that.

 

Mark, sorry to say, but I don't buy it that cedar charcoal will make "slower" powder. Dan Creagan shows several different types of cedar burning as fast or faster than black willow in his burn rate tests. Based on his results, powder made with cedar will be at least as good as Goex. At least, that's the impression that I get.

 

The reason I have so much wood is because my house is wood-heated. Like I said, the cedar is now used only for kindling due to the overabundance of pine, but back when we burned cedar all the time, just the wood by itself burned nicer than anything else we had at the time: lit easily, burned hotter, maybe a touch faster, and smelled really nice. For what its worth.

 

I'm also not interested in making a few different kinds of black powder for lift/break/spolettes/black match. I want to make one type, with one charcoal, and use it for those puposes. For star comps, that's a different story.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Wiley

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

With time you will want to use different coals for types of BP. The Commercial hardwoods will make decent BP. Not great but decent. It is a nice charcoal because it sparks well too for stars, but it is the 'entry level' of performance BP. Cedar I'm sure will be much faster. I'd say go for that. Just make sure the wood isn't very resinous.

 

In the long run its worth it to pursue the better charcoal. It is only 15% of the BP, but makes all the difference in the world of how the BP performs. With a slower coal you will have to use more BP to lift the same shell to the same height as a faster coal. So the better coal is better in the long run, however. Commercial airfloat is a perfect medium as it can be used across the board and it's cheap. I believe goex uses maple for their charcoal

[FlaMtnBkr]

How are you guys judging power? The only way I have is a BP tester that shoots a PVC in the air and the hangtime recorded. Based on that, I have made white pine BP from lumber that is hotter than Goex.

 

Im using a 1 gallon mill jar with 30lbs of lead and a 3 hour mill time. Also, many people are using Eastern Red Cedar pet bed shavings and making BP that is as hot as BP made with Paulownia, which is about as hot as you get. With a good mill and home made charcoal, there are lots of wood that will make good, hot BP as good as Goex or better. Try a wood you have access to and see how it does. Make a BP tester to convince yourself if you have to.

[Wiley]

Yes, the cedar that I'm used to is a very dry wood, that is, doesn't contain much resin at all, and is quite light once dry.

 

EDIT: Oh, yeah, red cedar pet bedding! That looks to be a great source of cheap, high-quality wood for charcoal. I may have to look into that.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Wiley

[nater]

A lot of people settle into using two types of charcoal. A fast one for lift and break and a sparkier one for stars. Remember that a faster BP is not always the best, large or heavy cylinder shells should be lifted with an average speed powder. With the fastest BP, they are much more likely to fail in the mortar.

 

I use GOEX Meal-D for spolettes. I have a supply of it and that is all it gets used for. This gives me consistient and predictable results, just what you need for timing.

 

I also like commercial airfloat for primes, polverone, and rocket fuel. I don't mill any of those and the commercial airfloat is cheap and readily available.

Edited March 22, 2014 by nater

[Wiley]

Nater, what do you refer to as a "large, heavy cylinder shell?" I'd always assumed that I could just use larger granules of the faster stuff, but it certainly makes sense to use wimpier charcoal. I don't see myself making anything larger than a 3" three-break or maybe even a 4" two-break any time soon.

 

I'm not against using two different types of charcoal--one for stars and one for BP--but I'd like to use just one charcoal for my BP. Again, just for the sake of consistency.

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

3 and 4" do not qualify for large shells. I think he's referring to much larger stuff. I lift my 3s and 4s with my hottest stuff no problem.

[nater]

8" shells and up are what I consider large. The one I saw destroy a mortar was a 3 break 10" with a large bottom shot.

[Wiley]

That's good for another wrinkle in my brain, but I'll probably never go that large. I'm already having so much fun with 1.75" break and reports, and there's so much left to explore, that I don't think I'll ever have to make that dumbed down BP for lift. Thanks for the info though

[nater]

Never say never.

 

You won't find the holy grail for all BPs. Two is about the minimum, one for sparks and one for power. I just mentioned commercial meal-D and commercial airfloat because they have their place too.

[marks265]

In the end you will end up testing and keeping track of what works and what doesn't work for you. After a while it will be second nature as to what to do and will turn to more work than fun :-)

 

Scroll up and reread. You should now know why you will have to make and test on your own.

 

I'm still waiting for someone to report how well charcoal from a good crap works. Dog or otherwise you may have to use more of it though.

 

Mark

[Wiley]

I did see that before. I was simply under the impression that cedar charcoals work well for fast BP, so I was a little surprised when you said that it would be on the slow side. I think I'll start with the red cedar pet shavings, since those seem to have a good rep, and I know I can get a steady supply of them.

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

Make sure you build a TLUD cooker for pet shavings. They won't work in a retort.

[Wiley]

Oh, I would've tried it in a retort. So much to learn.

 

Well, I could either build a TLUD and use the shavings, or find a tree/lumber and keep using my retort.

[spitfire]

Pyro's and charcoal... they talk about it like red wine! In my opinion, there are even differences in performance caused by the local conditions where the tree grew, processing etc. In the past, some Maltese professional pyro's told me that their best charcoal was made from Vine branches. I tried it and it burned like heavier woods, oak or beech. Absolutely useless for lift... Nowadays i only use de-barked willow branches of approx. 3 - 6 yrs old. Fastest BP i have ever had! For stars, i use pine coal. There is also a difference in the appearance of these two as a powder, willow has a soft ''satin'' look, and pine looks like it is shining like metal. Another problem that occurred with these two, is how they are compacted in a casing after ramming (rocket). Willow based BP is easily compacted that won't chip off easily. Pine on the other hand is easily damaged, even by mildly knocking the casing on a table top.

 

Conclusion: what type of wood is ''best'' is a matter of trial and error in most cases.

[Wiley]

I think that's one good reason why God created commercial airfloat . At least there's some level of consistency there

[bota]

I also recently bought a 6# ball mill from HF. I would suggest you carefully check the pulley alignment and adjust if needed and don't get the belt too tight. Also important is to oil the bushings before using it and every time you use it. Just a drop of light oil per bushing should do it. Also, a lot of these units are racked, or twisted and need some minor twisting to get right. This should give you a smoother and quieter experience and help to optimize bushing wear. I personally would not use both drums at the same time. Enjoy.

[MWJ]

This is my BP made with pond. Pine charcoal. This one is granulated with denatured Al.

 

 

This is granulated with water: