Wiley Posted March 11, 2014 Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Now that I've gotten my lift and burst working, I'd like to make some colored stars. Almost everything up to this point has been made from re-purposed materials, i.e. masking kraft used for anything requiring "kraft paper," stump remover KNO3 , crochet thread for spiking twine, etc. I haven't actually bought any real "pyro chems" and my price of operation has remained quite low. Colored stars of course require said pyro chems, and I want to keep costs to a minumum while still achieving some enjoyable effects. All the formulas below are from Shimizu, and though they are organic, I think they'll be suitable for my purposes. A few questions: 1) The blue uses dextrin instead of SGRS. Does it matter in this formula, or any of them for that matter, whether dex or SGRS are used? 5% of either sounds pretty darn sufficient to me. 2) The red and yellow formulas contain lampblack, most likely to lower the ignition temperature. Do I really need it? 3) Does PVC vs Parlon make any difference to the star's performance? 4) Most of these look to be slow burning formulas, based on the amount of carbonate in them. I really prefer long hanging colors. Is this the case? Red Star #1From Shimizu (FAST), page 215Parts by weightPotassium Perchlorate 66Red Gum 13Lampblack 2Strontium Carbonate 12Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) 2Soluble Glutinous Rice Starch 5------------Green Star #1From Shimizu (FAST), page 215Parts by weightBarium Nitrate 28.3Potassium Perchlorate 47.2Parlon 4.7Red Gum 14.2Soluble Glutinous Rice Starch 5.6----------------Blue Star #16Source: rec.pyrotechnicsParts by weightPotassium Perchlorate 60Copper Carbonate 20Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) 15Dextrin 5---------------Purple star #4From Shimizu (FAST), page 216. Listed under the name "Violet star II"Parts by weightPotassium Perchlorate 64.0Red Gum 9.5Copper(II) Oxide 5.2Strontium Carbonate 7.8Parlon 8.7Soluble Glutinous Rice Starch 4.8------------Yellow Star #5From Shimizu (FAST), page 215Parts by weightPotassium Perchlorate 68Red Gum 18Lampblack 2Sodium Nitrate 7Soluble Glutinous Rice Starch 5 Edited March 11, 2014 by Wiley
Mumbles Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I might get to this whole post in more detail later, but Dex vs. SGRS doesn't really matter other than personal preference. If you want to pump any of these, I'd go with dextrin personally. The lampblack is for smoothing the burn, and actually makes a difference to me. I generally just use airfloat charcoal though. Parlon vs. PVC probably makes a difference, but I don't really like PVC. It's very staticy and not always very finely ground. I'd go with all parlon personally, and screen out any coarse bits.
Wiley Posted March 12, 2014 Author Posted March 12, 2014 That's good to know about the parlon and airfloat. I intend to cut all of these for use in shells, but I just might make a couple larger pumped comets. Would dextrin be "best" in the sense that it would work for both of these processes?
psyco_1322 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 That's good to know about the parlon and airfloat. I intend to cut all of these for use in shells, but I just might make a couple larger pumped comets. Would dextrin be "best" in the sense that it would work for both of these processes? Dextrin will be fine for any form of star really, it's probably the most versatile binder and can be subbed in for SGRS. I'd also say to just avoid buying PVC, if you have a formula that calls for it, you can sub in Parlon or Saran. Most water bound color comps burn rather slow to start with, so it's not hard to get the burn times you want.
Wiley Posted March 12, 2014 Author Posted March 12, 2014 Cool. I think I may be ordering some "real chems" quite soon. Thanks for all of your input
Bobosan Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Can the organic formulas in the OP be safely ball milled? Edited March 12, 2014 by Bobosan
nater Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I would not ball mill them or anything other than BP or individual chems.
Wiley Posted March 12, 2014 Author Posted March 12, 2014 Besides, when you can just screen mix them, why wear out your ball mill on it? Aside from the safety issues of course. Anything with perc in it is going to be WAY more sensitive than a BP composition.
Bobosan Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Just curious. I am milling my component chems seperately but still seem to get small hard granules when I screen the mixed comp. Think Nater posted on another thread where he just tossed the small amounts that won't go through screening and it seems that minor differences in chem percentages will not be an issue. Better yet is to screen the individual chems before mixing and quit trying to take shortcuts. I have trashed the thoughts of ball milling anything besides BP and chalked it up to an early morning brain fart.
Mumbles Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 The two big culprits for that are using parlon and red gum. Parlon contains coarse material that's still parlon. Red gum, at least of lower quality, has sand, dirt, and bark that is usually somewhat coarse. Largely this stuff from both materials doesn't really get ground all that well in a ball mill anyway. I just screen out this stuff since it's garbage anyway. I'd rather get rid of it than crush it up and include it in my stars.
Bobosan Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) The small white and blackish colored granules is consistent with what you are saying, Mumbles. I'm working with Shimizu blue and it has the parlon and red gum. Edited March 12, 2014 by Bobosan
nater Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I think it was Mark who posted it, but I do the same thing.
marks265 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Yep, I had mentioned something about chunk tossing. I screen everything through a fine screen once to remove the chunks and to break down any clumping (this is a good time to toss the chunks! hehe). Then I screen everything 3-4 times mixing the comp by pouring it from one pail to another after each screening. I never mill star comps either. If the chems are fine enough to begin with, which they should be, then milling is unnecessary. I would go nuts trying to figure out what all went through the mill previously and if I should clean it or not, or if I should risk it or not.... When I make my break and lift powder it sometimes gets to be hilarious because of all the bugs, seeds, hay, or grass I find in it from laying out all day drying. I ignore the smaller stuff and remove the straw or anything else that is sizable when I pack up for the day. I screen that out when I grade the powder to size at a later date.
Bobosan Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Yes, it was Mark who tossed his chunks first. Back to the OP as I didn't intend to hijack the thread. Wiley, you have the blue formula from rec.pyrotechnics listed and all others are Shimizu's. Why did you choose not to use a Shimizu blue?
Wiley Posted March 13, 2014 Author Posted March 13, 2014 Yes, I noticed that yesterday. That whole list was cut and pasted from a skylighter promotional email, and I assumed that they were all Shimizu. I did find the formula for one of his blues though. Very similar to the other formulas 1
Bobosan Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Yes it is. This is Shimizu blue from another Skylighter article. Potassium Perchlorate - .61Copper Carbonate - .12Parlon - .13Red Gum - .09Dextrin - .05 He really likes that red gum!
Wiley Posted March 14, 2014 Author Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) Just an aside, but I intend to order all of my chems from Pastime Pyro Chemicals. However, the shipping estimator told me that it would cost $28 to ship 9 lb. worth of chems to eastern WA. Is that normal? I know Hobby Chemical supply "only" charges $20 to ship 9 lb. to the same zip code. More on topic: Would a standard greenmix prime work to light these formulas reliably, or should a step prime be used (intermediate layer of 50:50 greenmix:star comp)? Edited March 14, 2014 by Wiley
psyco_1322 Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Just an aside, but I intend to order all of my chems from Pastime Pyro Chemicals. However, the shipping estimator told me that it would cost $28 to ship 9 lb. worth of chems to eastern WA. Is that normal? I know Hobby Chemical supply "only" charges $20 to ship 9 lb. to the same zip code. More on topic: Would a standard greenmix prime work to light these formulas reliably, or should a step prime be used (intermediate layer of 50:50 greenmix:star comp)? You should just invest in some stuff to make fence post prime, it will save you headaches in the future. A pound of silicon and a pound of diatomaceous earth will go a long way.
Shadowcat1969 Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 The Monocapa Prime from the translated Spanish PDF works very well too: Potassium Perchlorate: 24.6Potassium Nitrate: 31.1Airfloat Charcoal (hot liike Willow or Paulownia): 11.5Red Gum: 4.1Sulfur: 4.9Iron Oxide, Black: 7.4Magnalium 230 mesh, or Dark Aluminum: 12.3Dextrin: 4.1 I have been spritzing my rolled Perchlorate stars with a 10% Dextrin solution then dunking them into some of this loose prime, until the stars won't pick up any more. Usually results in a pretty thin layer of prime, but it has lit everything I've tried it on without any step priming.
FlaMtnBkr Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 If you want some of the best red and green around, check out the rubber stars on Skylighters website. The ones that use strontium and barium nitrate. You won't be disappointed with them. They use acetone and the parlon to bind them. They dry fast and when dry are literally like pieces of plastic. You can dunk them in water, dry them off, and they burn like normal. You can also get some hardware cloth to make screens to slice them if you don't want to splurge on the expensive stainless screens. I wish I knew about the formulas back when I first started trying to make colors. Green can be especially hard to get a good color. I think it was harder than blue when I first started. At least for me. Also, many don't like a sodium yellow. A combination of red and green can give more of a lemon color and also a nice orange in the right proportions. Just another opinion. We all have to experiment to see what we like best as well as the methods we like to make them.
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 The Monocapa Prime from the translated Spanish PDF works very well too: Potassium Perchlorate: 24.6Potassium Nitrate: 31.1Airfloat Charcoal (hot liike Willow or Paulownia): 11.5Red Gum: 4.1Sulfur: 4.9Iron Oxide, Black: 7.4Magnalium 230 mesh, or Dark Aluminum: 12.3Dextrin: 4.1 The quote option wasnt working for some reason. This is the prime that ned gorski uses exclusively for K perchlorate stars now apparently. I'm definitely giving this a shot after I use all my current prime
Shadowcat1969 Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 This is the prime that ned gorski uses exclusively for K perchlorate stars now apparently. I'm definitely giving this a shot after I use all my current prime Yes, his comments about it were why I tried it. I had been having sporadic results even step priming with hot prime and BP on my KPerc stars, but this stuff is GREAT! I haven't had a failure with it yet, although I haven't been using it very long yet. It seems to take fire as easily as a rough BP coating and it burns quick and hot to ignite what it's on.
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