Colored Alcohol Flames

[ewest]

Since last Halloween I’ve wanted to try out some colored alcohol flames using Chlorides. I’ve been making Cupric Chloride and wax coated pine cones for a while now so I decided to try some other colors. This is pretty easy to do, the toughest part is to actually find and buy the chemicals needed.

 

Here’s a list of what you’ll need:

 

Methanol - (can be bought at racing car shops for about $4/gallon)

Red – Strontium Chloride

Green – Boric Acid

Blue – (straight Methanol burns Blue) Cupric Chloride will burn Blue/Green

Orange – Table Salt (I used Morton Salt which is Sodium Chloride with some Iodine)

Yellow – Barium Chloride

 

For my testing I used 1/8 teaspoon in 30ml of Methanol, but really you can probably use less chemicals. I didn't heat anything up, I simply let the chemicals dissolve for a couple minutes in the Methanol. Don't worry if you get the concentration too high, after the Methanol is burned off, it will leave a residue which is the original chemical you used, simply add more Methanol and relight. 30ml burned for about 5 minutes in my glass bowls.

 

http://www.apcforum.net/files/toplefttobtmright-boricacid-bariumchloride-salt-strontiumchloride-cupricchloridesmall.JPG

In the picture from Top Left to Bottom Right you can see Boric Acid (Green), Barium Chloride (Yellow), Sodium Chloride (Orange), Strontium Chloride (Red), Cupric Chloride (Blue/Green)

 

I had a couple of surprises. I thought the Barium Chloride would burn Green but it actually burned Yellow. Also, I thought the Sodium Chloride would burn Yellow but it burned Orange; perhaps it was the Iodine that caused it.

 

I’ve heard that Lithium will burn Purple but I didn’t have any to try. However in a Skylighter newsletter that talks about colored alcohol flames they show a picture where Lithium is burning Red. When you get right down to it though, Lithium is about $26/lb where Strontium is $7/lb; I’ll stick to Strontium thank you very much.

 

Now for some fun stuff I have yet to try. How about mixing the chemicals together like you do in the Veline Color Star formulas? That might be a better way to make Purple, Pink, stuff like that. Also, the alcohol mixes can be put into alcohol lamps or Tiki Torches for your next outdoor party. How about colored liquid fireballs? Or squirting it from a pressurized container into an open flame for background effects?

 

Anyway, enjoy this simple little experiment and have fun next Halloween……

[optimus]

Nice job!

 

Lithium Chloride does burn a deeper, more vivid/saturated red than Strontium, but not purple atall. I don't have a picture at hand, but it is worth trying for the deep red colour you get from it...

It's also extremely hygroscopic, but this isn't really an issue if you're just dissolving it in Methanol.

 

I use big pans of the stuff to build up an atmosphere for my garden displays. It's also great to dip poi/firestaffs/other misc. flaming circus equipment in to really wow the audience. Just be careful not to get it allover yourself and breathe too much fumes...

 

Here's me spinning some boric acid on my firestaff:

 

http://www.apcforum.net/files/CRW_0531_RT16.jpg

[weknowpyro]

Is it possible to use ethanol instead of methanol.

A nice idea which skylighter suggested is making coloured fire balls, that would be pretty awe insipiring.

[Mardec]

It is possible, but boric doesn't give a very beautifull green with ethanol.

 

As for the other salts I actually don't know, But I think it will work.

 

And for you ewest, nice job really you inspired me to make tis stuff!!

[h0lx]

MEG gives nice pure green with boric, when heated with it, I bet the same with etho.

[ewest]

Thank you everyone, it's something I've wanted to put together for a while and finally decided to just do it. Plus it's cold outside so I might as well play with open flames if I can't press rockets right?

 

I was inspired by h0lx and his green MEG flame a while back and some articles I found on Skylighter. Here's a link to one:

Ghost Mines

 

and another:

Colored Flame Projectors and Ghost Mines

 

As for the Ethyl alcohol question here's a quote from the second article I linked to :

Ethyl alcohol may work on some but the denaturing agent tends to give a yellow flame.  I hear the boric acid doesn't work with ethyl alcohol.

[Mardec]

What is MEG?

 

And it sounds like it is time to make some LiCl disappear from my school lab and let is misteriously appear in my lab

 

Could try strontium to, have a lot of SrCO3 laying around.

 

 

1/8th teaspoon, ewest could you give me a +/- weight for that?

[h0lx]

MEG is MonoEthyleneGlycol. HOCH2CH2OH. Also broke a glass bowl from heat, becauseI was messing with colored flames.

[ewest]

1/8th teaspoon, ewest could you give me a +/- weight for that?

Uh, I didn't really weigh it when I put it in, but I'm guessing 1gr

 

Either way it doesn't need to be specific, either a little or a lot, it'll still burn with a color.

 

Also, like I said earlier, if you put too much chemical in the alcohol, once it burns off the Methanol you'll have a residue that is the original chemical. You can pour more Methanol on it and reuse it. It's really hard to get this wrong.

 

And h0lx, I broke a glass bowl too. I figured it would though because it wasn't Pyrex.

[Mardec]

I burn it in ceramic bowls, they can hold more heat

 

Also, I don't have time right now but following chems 'could' burn:

 

CaCl2 orange

 

KCl Purple?

 

KI Better purple?

 

 

 

These are pretty easy to obtain chems so you should try em too!

I will to once my fucking exams are over, 6 weeks can be longer than a lifetime my social life is a wreck right now

[ewest]

Just in case anyone is interested, you can find NaCl (Sodium Chloride), CaCl2 (Calcium Chloride), KCl (Potassium Chloride) at Home Depot.

 

NaCl and KCl is in 40lb bags as water softner salt and salt substitute.

CaCl2 is sold as Lime.

*edit*CaCl2 is sold as an ice melting product, not Lime.

 

 

I'd go get some to try, but I don't really need or want 40lbs of any of that stuff.

 

On another update, I put some Methanol and SrCl2 in a Windex squirt bottle and squirted it into a lighter last night. VERY COOL. And the bottle can stream or spray, both neat effects. And don't worry, Methanol does not burn fast enough to back the flame up into the bottle and cause a problem. It's pretty safe to try it.

[styropyro]

I've made some green fire using Heet antifreeze for methanol and it worked fine. Putting it in a spray bottle is awesome, it almost doesn't look real seeing a big green fireball. But this thread inspired me to go buy a bunch of metal chlorides. Do you guys put the "wick" in like it says in the skylighter article?

[Mumbles]

Lime is calcium hydroxide mainly. CaCl2 is not. It is however sold as an ice melting product in the colder areas of the US, and as a product called "Damp-rid".

[ewest]

Lime is calcium hydroxide mainly.  CaCl2 is not.  It is however sold as an ice melting product in the colder areas of the US, and as a product called "Damp-rid".

AH-HAH! thanks for the clarification. That just teaches you that NOT everything you read on the net is true. I read on some web page that said Calcium Chloride, Lime and I said "Oh, I know what that is." I'll go edit that previous post to clear up any confusion.

 

I don't really have a Chemistry background, but I'm learning.

 

And styropyro, no I didn't use the "wick" like they said. I just burned the alcohol in a bowl with nothing. I guess you could stick the steel wool in there if you wanted to, but it'll burn just fine without it. You can see in the picture I posted that there's nothing else in the bowls

[weknowpyro]

I tryed this today using ethanol instead of methanol and had good results.

I did not have any chemicals to try and make red and such.

 

But i made a solution of -

 

20ml Ethanol

4g Copper (II) Oxide

 

This made a brillant green colour, not as good as using boric acid though im sure. Its defintly exciting to shoot out green fireballs though.

 

Here's a pic of me shooting a green fireball out my spray gun.

[ewest]

Update:

Damprid (Calcium Chloride) bought at Home Depot for the low low price of $5 burns with an orange flame in Methanol

[_DB_]

That picture of the five different flames is so awesome. I think I may give the Heet/Boric Acid green a go soon.

[Rooster]

Thought I would add some of my old pictures of colored flames, including some rather exotic/expensive ones. All liquids are soaked onto cotton. I believe I used methanol as the solvent for most of the salts.

 

Lithium Chloride:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/ewfrooster/pyro%20pics/Flame%20colours/Lithium_Chloride.jpg

 

Methanol on cotton:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/ewfrooster/pyro%20pics/Flame%20colours/Methanol.jpg

 

Strontium Chloride:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/ewfrooster/pyro%20pics/Flame%20colours/Strontium_Chloride.jpg

 

Boric acid:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/ewfrooster/pyro%20pics/Flame%20colours/Boric_Acid.jpg

 

Cesium Carbonate:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/ewfrooster/pyro%20pics/Flame%20colours/Cesium_Carbonate.jpg

 

Cupric Bromide:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/ewfrooster/pyro%20pics/Flame%20colours/Cupric_Bromide.jpg

[h0lx]

With boric acid, it's wise to add a drop of sulfuric acid to catalyse.

[ewest]

With boric acid, it's wise to add a drop of sulfuric acid to catalyse.

And why is that? Is it a safety issue or does it make it burn better?

[Mumbles]

The green color comes from methyl borate, a pseudo ester. The sulfuric acid helps to catalyse the reaction by sucking up water driving it forward, thus producing a better green.

[h0lx]

pseudoester? What do you mean by that?

[lja]

Boric acid, stirred into a can of Sterno gives the same green. It doesn't look like it's dissolving but it works just fine. These are great for parties just in case someone knocks it over you don't have a huge fire.

Lithium chloride in Sterno turns it into a liquid almost instantly , it still works fine with a wick made of steel wool but defeats any purpose in using a gel.

The blue of Sterno also seems to be a deeper blue than methanol alone, it could have something to do with the PVA used to gel it but I'm not sure why that would be.

 

Lithium and sodium chloride together in methanol give a great orange, by varying the amounts you can get a deep "pumpkin" orange to a much lighter orange similiar to using calcium chloride.

 

I've also tried a few different copper salts with hexachlorethane in methanol for colors ranging from a sky blue to an aqua color. Substituting a very small amount of methylene chloride for the hexachorethane works also. Too much and you'll get yellow.

[cplmac]

I've had some trouble getting the Strontium Chloride to dissolve, and the result is a flame that is parts blue and parts red. Once the mix has been burning for a few minutes the red starts to be the main or only color. Presumably because it is heating up and dissolving. Ewest, did you do anything special to make the stuff dissolve?

[Mumbles]

Sorry I didn't see this post before. By pseudoester, I mean that it's not the classical form of an ester. Esters classically form between carboxylic acids and alcohols. Boric acid isn't a carboxylic acid. It rerally depends on which definition you look at. Some say it's a condensation reaction between an acid and an alcohol. Others specify carboxylic acid.

 

I'm sure several of you have seen nitroglycerine refered to as glycerol trinitrate, which is the more correct naming as it's not a true nitro group. Organic nitrates like these are sometimes called nitrate esters. They're formed between an acid (nitric acid), and an alcohol (hydroxyl groups on the glycerol).