Super-cheap ROCKET TOOLING?

[HeA]

Looking for really cheap rocket tooling, for 1" (id) rockets.

 

I've done lots of pyro stuff before, also worked with a professional firm doing things like USD 200.000 new year's fireworks shows. Also ex-amateur rocketry, but that was a long time ago. Now I'm looking to get back into amateur rocketry, but motors are ridiculously expensive so I thought I'd put my experience to use to construct my own rocket motors.

 

Appreciate your help!

Sincerely yours.

[pyrokid]

Cheap Chinese tooling can be had from usfc-pyroworks.com, but it's cheap and sub optimal.

 

Spend a couple hundred with Hunter, Wolter, or Ben Firesmith, you'll be glad you did.

 

 

www.fireworktools.com

www.wolterpyrotools.com

www.firesmithtools.com

 

 

I have attached a graph for reference.

 

[HeA]

Thank you pyrokid!

Yes sure, dirt-cheap tools don't have all the advantages of a $150 tool set, but it seems more appropriate for my very first set to be in the $20 range. That way I can afford mistakes, or even breaking it without weeping tears of blood.

 

Found $20 tool set: www.freewebs.com/supremepyro/rocket/rocket.htm

But it seems like SupremePyro has gone out of business (email address has been shut down and google displayed a couple of "do not order" threads about SupremePyro)

 

For my very first tooling I'm going dirt-cheap. This way I can get a 'feel' for what size and type of tooling I prefer.

When I'm more experienced with making rocket engines I'll spring for something more expensive.

[Gunzway]

If you want a cheap set, then make one yourself. That way you're only using time and material. End-burner tooling is quite easy to make and you could get away without a lathe with some ingenuity. Other sets might be more difficult.

 

Otherwise check out pyrokid's link, it seems they sell a primitive 1" set for $27.50.

[nater]

Why start with just large motors? Are you intending to fly sport rockets with them? If you are, you might want to spring for a good set of tooling right away or make one yourself if you can. Otherwise, I would suggest learning on a smaller set. Smaller rockets take much less comp to fly, which is better when dialing in fuels while learning. Smaller rockets are also less hazardous when something does not go as planned.

 

If you want to go straight for lifting sport sized rockets, why learn on a cheap set and then have to adjust your fuels all over again with new tooling? The spindle dimensions are different, which will require changes in the fuels if you are looking for optimum thrust or burn duration.

 

Are you in the US? I can recommend a gentlemen who makes 1" tooling with interchangeable spindles made from stainless steel taper pins. The set is more than $20, but gives you several spindle lengths for different motors. It might be exactly what you need.

 

Lastly, check out David Sleeter's book, "Amateur Rocket Motor Construction" He writes about homemade BP and sugar rocket motors specifically for Amateur Rockets. He also includes tooling schematics which a machine shop should be able to reproduce for you. Again, it will be more than $20, but will be a much higher quality tool. With most things it is best to use the right tool for the job rather than make do with the cheapest route.

[coalman]

I have attached a graph for reference.

 

 

Umm yes I sort of agree but how is quality measured? And is a $1m set really twice as good as a $500,000 set?

[Peret]

It really depends how many times you want to use it. An expensive set will use hard materials, surface treatment and a good polished finish. As long as you don't ram titanium it will last forever. A cheap set will use soft materials, be easily scratched and bent, and probably get destroyed one day when you jam a spindle and have to cut it off. The cheapest tools are made of wood. With luck, you may be able to ram five rockets before it splits and you have to make another.

 

I once bought a 3/4 inch rocket tool from USFC for about $30. I've never used it - the spindle is rough and not tapered, and I'm afraid if I ram on it I'll never get the motor off. It's a nice piece of brass though, worth $20 just for the metal. One day I'll machine it into something else.

[WilsonT]

When I first started trying my hand at rockets, I made my own tooling using a drill press and file. I didn't have any dimensions, so I just made what I thought it should be. Turned out ok, but the spindle was a bit long. I just adjusted the formulation of the comp until it lifted well without a cato. That was over 10 years ago, but I have since gotten out of pyro. I am starting to get back into the hobby, so I decided to re-make my tooling. Still planning on using brass, but hopefully my machining skills have improved in the interim.

[Blackthumb]

I still make most of mine from hardwood and lathe turned. If you don't have access to a wood lathe, then most hardwood dowels come in sizes that either fit or can be sanded down to fit your tubes. Send me one of your tubes and I will make you a pair of rammers to get you going. I have a set I use daily that I made five years ago from a piece of oak. Rockets are easy to make if your fuel is right. Expensive sets are great...look nice and work well....wood is just as easy and low/no cost...

Just my three cents worth...

PM if you want more info

Blackthumb

[dagabu]

Super Cheap Tooling may be a good way to save money but you can make your own for a few dollars or even get some Navel Bronze and make a lifetime tool set. Below is my set I made about 18 months ago, it is 100% Navel Bronze and has two bronze nuts that allow for a vertical ejection of the motor so NO twisting or friction heat is created by removing the spindle from the rocket cavity. If you ram BP rockets, you really have to use metal for the rams, any wood, no matter how hard will dimple where the wood is softer, that leaves dimples in the ram face causing soft spots (and places where the grain can crack) in the grain.

 

It takes a lot of pressure to make BP into a solid grain, rammed grains are 10-20% lighter by weight (tests done in 2009-12) in the same tube and show shorter burn times on the RTR.

 

That said, Blackthumb is awesome and I have no doubt he has it dialed in.

 

[Blackthumb]

DAG...you are correct about the dimples in the ram face...hasn't caused me any problems yet....very minute since I use heart oak and acacia. I am not one of those high tech rocket makers....keep it simple and they all fly high and fast. All of my spindles are made from brass, bronze, and aluminum as well as several aluminum rammers. I have one 3/4 rod of 6061 aluminum I still use...use wood and aluminum for creating fused bulkheads...video coming....makes adding sure fire headers real easy...

Most newcomers to rockets are low on $$ but need to be safe. I will turn a free set of hardwood "tools" for any beginner. My first spindles were made from solid aluminum knitting needles...good taper...nice finish. Best one I still use today was made from a toilet float ball rod...1/4" rolled thread, screwed into an aluminum base and tapered slightly in a drill press. Use it every day while my "professional" spindles gather dust. Once you get your fuel down right, the rest is easy. I have a lot of fun sending up tube ends and pieces of recovered rockets.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Blackthumb

[ianagos]

Hey for the cost of the alluminum/brass/bronze/stainless/ ill turn you a tool with my dimensions ( slightly modified of this rocket designer program I forget what it's called ) or whatever dimensions you want as long as its not crazy. The reason I do this is because I can't really test often so all I ask you is you report how the tools work for you. This will probably run you around $25 or $30 for alluminum for similar tools as wolter or one of those companies charging you a $150 a set. Attached is a photo of a gerb tool I made for myself but realize the base isn't in that picture.