Coloured Fire help

[Fennius]

Right, I'm not (currently) looking to make any explosive fireworks, rather I'm part of a larp group that wants to add someoccasional bursts ritual performances.

 

I have a nice little gel burner and the idea was that I could toss little pinches of various chemicals into the flame to produce short lived bursts of different colours. Unfortunately my experiments haven't worked perfectly.

 

Blue/green I can do easily - I can cheaply get 'magic dust' Sachets made of copper sulphate and chloride iirc. It produces an immediate and very clear effect, then stops (aside from occasional bursts as unburned bits catch).

 

I also got a kilo of Potassium chloride cheaply because I'd read it produced a violet flame. I can sometimes get that to work but it's barely noticeable and doesn't always work (and too much puts the flame out, so that ddidn't work.

 

I then bought some Calcium chloride because I read it burnt blue and green wasn't an irritant but then realised the site I was using got it wrong and it apparently burns orange, so whoops. The same site recommended Alum powder for pure green, but that doesn't seem to do anything

 

I also got a tub of Strontium carbonate (as it was cheaper than nitrate) which I know for a fact burns crimson and should look amazing... Except I can't get the bugger to light! Tossed into the flame it does nothing and then just sinks to the bottom of the gel, and attempting to light it on its own* (which I've seen done in videos) will slightly brown it at best.

 

*an alternate plan was to out little piles of powder in the bottom of a mini iron cauldron and light them effectively as mini flares, I figured I could get red and maybe purple if I mixed in the Potassium (don't know if the blues burn that way).

 

A third plan would be just to make coloured candles, though worst case I can buy those.

 

A fourth plan is to get Flash paper or something that burns nicely and soak it in dissolved chemicals, but that won't be as cool.

 

Anyway does anyone have advice?

[Mumbles]

Violet is a pretty optimistic description for potassium. I'd describe it more as a lilac. It's pretty pale. If you want a robust violet, you'll want to mix a strontium red and copper blue.

 

I suspect whatever website you saw calcium chloride burning as blue and green actually meant copper chloride. For many colors the chlorides are usually best. Certain colors, like red, certain greens, and blue, are enhanced by chloride being present. Without it, you get more of an orange-ish, limeish, and pale blue or red respectively.

 

In actual pyrotechnics we can play tricks to make to make things like carbonates and sulfates work. In what you're doing, the toolbox isn't quite as big. I'd stick with chlorides or nitrates if you can.

 

For green, you might want to try boric acid, which should be available at most hardware stores as a bug/roach killer.

[boule]

The actual stuff that you would be looking for is a "bengal liquid" - basically a gel like you would use in your burner that already has the coloring agend added.

 

http://www.lemaitreusa.com/p/Bengal-Fire-Liquid/FcXnE9PLXSg

 

I don't know the exact composition but those liquids are available commercially and could be used in your burner easily.

 

 

If you can live with something not as bright but still visible, you can also use the following chemicals for about 60g in a gallon of methanol:

• Red: Lithium chloride (actually any soluble lithium salt)
• Orange: Calcium chloride
• Yellow: Sodium chloride
• Green: Boric acid
• Violet: Potassium iodide

 

Finally, for a real color flash, you would usually use smokeless powder with an appropriate colored oxidizer added in a 9:1 ratio - for example strontium nitrate, barium nitrate or sodium nitrate. Those Flames will burn briefly, bright and produce little jets. You might even be able to dump little sachets of the appropriate mixture into your gel burner but this would require some careful testing.

 

Now, just go by whatever is safe, legal and available in your locality.

[Maserface]

I think lithium perchlorate is a decent, if not better, sub for lithium chloride.

[FlaMtnBkr]

I would go with an alcohol burner and use methanol and the above mentioned chemicals.

 

Lithium chloride makes an amazing red. Boric acid makes a good green and is available at many dollar stores as roach killer. Calcium chloride makes a good orange-red from what I remember. Plain methanol is blue but not great. I think copper chloride will dissolve but I haven't tried that one. Pure methanol can be purchased as fuel de-icer but isn't the cheapest option. Make sure not to get the isopropyl and in the US a common brand is HEET.

 

YouTube has quite a few videos on making an easy and cheap alcohol burner/stove. That is how I would go unless you want to make some colored star comps but will be a short burn with quite a bit of smoke and you need to be outside.

[ollie1016]

Maybe try dissolving the chemicals in some ethanol, and throw them on the fire. You would have to make little sachets and make sure the ethanol doesn't leak out! Best of luck

[TranslucentDragon]

Does it matter if the chlorides are anyhydrous or a hydrous compound (I think that was correct terminology)?

Edited February 27, 2014 by TranslucentDragon

[ollie1016]

Does it matter if the chlorides are anyhydrous or a hydrous compound (I think that was correct terminology)?

I'm thinking they would work better if they were anhydrous. The extra water molecules might slow things down a bit.

[FlaMtnBkr]

If it is added to alcohol it shouldn't matter. The alcohol will more likely have significantly more water in it than a chloride with waters of hydration present.

[TranslucentDragon]

I'm looking for a website or a person on APC that sells different chlorides (specifically cupric, strontium, lithium, and calcium) all in one place, so I can try to save on shipping.

 

I can't seem to find strontium chloride anywhere. Skylighter sells cupric and barium chloride, but not strontium. I can't find it from a google search, on ebay, or on amazon, except at outrageous prices ($70 for 500g + shipping). I'm starting to wonder where Fennius got a tub of the stuff. So any sources at all where I could find that would be much appreciated (or if someone is selling, please show me the post or PM me [although I'm only looking for roughly 200-500g so I can't buy bulk]). Is there any particular reason Strontium Chloride is so hard to buy?

[Mumbles]

Are you sure you checked ebay? Seems like the going price is around $25/lb

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xstrontium+chloride&_nkw=strontium+chloride&_sacat=0&_from=R40

 

You can always make it from HCl and strontium carbonate. There are a few intricacies to that, so ask or search before you do it. Making them from the carbonates and HCl might be the easiest way to get them all inexpensively from the same source.

[TranslucentDragon]

*facepalm* I was looking for anhydrous, I forgot to switch to hexahydrate. My bad. Thanks, Mumbles.

 

And I would synthesize the chlorides, except I'm not sure how pure the product would be compared to bought, and doesn't recrystallization take a week or so to complete? I still have to do research for synthesizing, so maybe I'll synthesize them in the future.

Edited March 1, 2014 by TranslucentDragon