Pasting methods

[enanthate]

Hey guys,

"New" to this forum! Been reading around for quite a while, before creating an account to access files and the chat-room.

As I'm quite new to the hobby (4x 3" shells fired), I don't have enough experience to tell whether my pasting is decent or poor. I don't even have a stable pasting-technique for my shells yet, I just kind of paste it. A bit messy, but it works.

 

I started with the 3-strip method on my first shell (3"), and half-way through the process I thought to myself what the h*** have I gotten myself into. That's when I got lazy and used the same pasting-method as the pasting machines use. This has worked quite nicely judging by the feedback I've gotten on my videos, and is way faster.

 

So my question is, what pasting-technique do you use? What techniques are there? I've seen different ones on Youtube, but never found any "easy" ones. I've also seen threads here and on other forums, I'm aware of the fact that you DO need to paste your shells, and that it IS alot of work. Doesn't mean we can't make it easier, and improve our methods, right?

As for my method, I suspect it is a bit weaker than the 3-strip-method and perhaps creates a bit in/unsymmetrical break? Anyhow, it seems to be much quicker and easier, so I've settled with this one for now. Curious about your techniques, please share your experiences and/or ideas!

 

 

-K

 

*Posted this in the "newbie questions" since it's my first question, and I feel it belongs here. Please move to the correct section if any.*

Edited February 24, 2014 by enanthate

[MWJ]

I'd love to see some of your videos of the burst and of your method of pasting. I'm new here too so I want to see how other people do it.

[nater]

I use the 3 strip method when I make ball shells, but I prefer spiking to pasting strips and make more cylinder shells. I have not been able to get the hang of taping shells with one strip like the WASP. I always end up with egg shaped shells.

[mkn]

I'm new as well, use the three strip and find that it is fairly quick <10 mins for 3.5 inch shell. I pull a long strip across the wet sponge, paste and tear to length as I go. Burnish each strip layer/ revolution. Breaks look nice, but still too early to say I've got it right.

 

Matt

[enanthate]

Nater, my shells are not perfectly round, but not egg-like either. Something in-between. Hopefully this won't make a big mess on the break, will upload videos today/tomorrow and show my two 3" waiting to be fired.

 

MWJ, I can upload some pics of my pasting, but it's really easier to just watch the pasting-machine. Its quite simple, although the shell won't be perfectly round.

 

Wow mkn, less than 10mins? I guess the 3-strip can be quite quick when you get experienced. I've tried what you say, but I allways get very sticky on my hands and it's all a big mess really, so I've found it easier to use the "cheating-method".

 

Will build a pasting-machine when the economy is up for it. And a quickmatch-machine. And a bigger mill, new star roller. Shellcasing- and blackpowder-press. Motivation-dispenser?

 

 

A bit off-topic: Will have my 6" shells tomorrow, and since I live in Norway, it seems to be quite expensive to make these things. I figured that tigertail-like stars would be the cheapest to make, and normal lift and break? Any ideas what might be cheaper?

Charcoal is about $15 pr kg, same with sulfur, potassium nitrate is double. Barium nitrate/copper oxide/ etc are all a bit more expensive, but not too bad. Suggestions? Maybe it doesn't really matter?

I fill the shell-casing with stars all the way around, assuming this is the right way. Just for my 3" this means something like 50-60 stars (5-6mm) pr shell, and for the 6" I'm afraid to calculate how much I actually need..

 

-K

Edited February 25, 2014 by enanthate

[enanthate]

Sorry for doubleposting.

 

So I just fired my fifth 3". Like on my third and fourth shell, the stars failed to ignite. Last time I thought I was using too much flash (2-3g), so I used about 0.5g of whistle this time. Still failed.

On my first shell they all ignited, but I didn't have a boost so the break was poor. Then I used a littlebit of flash on my second one, and it worked like a charm.

What's going on? I've been using Veline Blue with BP prime, so it's not very likely to ignite. I would still think that 20% would ignite or something. Am I completely off on this one? Or is it maybe my methods? Will show a couple of photos and a video of the break below. Please share your thoughts!

 

Please view "3" Veline Blue Whistle" :

http://www.youtube.com/user/KimKim565/videos

 

Bp coated cereal. Too much/little BP?

 

The Veline in the video was built kind of like this, but with way smaller stars. I also filled the shell with stars all the way around, instead of just on the equator.

 

Third and fourth shell, my GF made the sad one. "3" Veline blue, too much FP." on my Youtube, these were the same stars I used in my last shell today. At least some of hers ignited

 

Done pasting.

 

Fitted toiletpaper plus extra paste to fit my 88mm mortar.

 

 

[Jakenbake]

I'm assuming you rolled these stars. Did you apply the prime in the star roller as well? As soon as I'm done priming I like to get the stars really wet until they shine. I then dump them in a tub that has milled black powder. Shake them good until they take a nice coating and look almost fuzzy. Sometimes i find just priming them in the star roller leaves a very smooth finish on them and they can become difficult to ignite. The rougher the finish the easier they fire.

 

If you really feel you need to add a booster I would start out low like .5 gram. I havn't had any luck using 2-3 grams of KP in a 3" shell. And all you see is a silver center.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Jakenbake

[nater]

Are you adding the BP prime straight on top of the color comp? A lot of perc based stars benefit from step priming or using a hotter prime. Try mixing a little bit of your star comp and BP 50/50. Roll this on top of the dried stars and let dry. Then add a final layer of plain BP. This is also one area where green mix BP tends to work a little better. The slower burn with more dross than milled meal gives more time for the color comp to heat up and ignite.

[schroedinger]

Also what binder did you use, water or aceton? If you used water how long did you let them dry?

[enanthate]

I know that the Veline stars require Veline super prime or something. Will try your tips though, and the star comp/bp 50/50 sounds like an easy way to do it. Will deffinitely try it out, thanks! Green mix will be tried as well.

 

I allways use 25% alcohol and 75% water for everything, as I'm quickly becoming a fan of dextrin. I let them dry in front of a heatpump, it's not hot but the air it blows is very dry. This is highly effective, and a batch of relatively wet BP-granules dries in a couple of hours. I let them sit for a day though, to make sure they are absolutely dry all the way through.

Grinded my last BP-batch through a 4-mesh screen, and they are unbreakable! Dextrin keeps amazing me.

My dextrin is homemade by the way, from potato-flour(?). Works like a charm.

 

I'm off to fire a 3" winokur #20 shell today or tomorrow, will upload video. Hopefully this will work better! These stars also have a Veline blue core, so I'm excited to see whether they ignite or not. Guessing 20%, but I've been wrong before.....

 

 

edit: schroedinger, if you use pure water in your star comps and dry them normally, I would think it takes at least 2 days for them to get completely dry, depending on the size of course. My 5mm stars takes at least a day to dry all the way through, and this is with water/alcohol and heatpump.

 

edit2: I completely forgot. The shell I fired yesterday also contained a few grams of dragon eggs, which did not ignite. Strange? Will fire the next one within the hour, which also contains dragon eggs. Video will come.

Edited February 26, 2014 by enanthate

[enanthate]

It's been a while since I updated this thread. Had some failure-shells (didnt bother uploading them), been working on it, got some success combined with failure, but after firing another 20 or so 3 inches, it's starting to come together.

Thanks for your help so far.

 

I'm currently working on a 6" to be fired quite soon, it's ready to fire. I'm just waiting for a wet day. I feel confident that this shell will be a little success, although with only 2,5g whistle it can't be a great bang. Also, my HDPE-mortar is apparently a little tight for my shells, so after pasting 5 revolutions (10layers) the shell barely fits in the mortar. Was gonna paste at least twice as much, but gotta stop there. Hopefully it will be a decent break anyway.

Which, by the way, leads me to another question. How much booster for 6"? So many different experiences out there. Some say you don't need, some say you should have 30g flash. So what do you use?

Stars are C8 rolled on blue cores, primed with BP +5% silicon. I really hope this works!

Video will come, unless it fails completely. It will come

[DanielC]

Normally shells larger than say 3 or four inch really don't need much if any booster. I will use it on 3 inch and smaller. One thing that should make a difference is to only use granulated hot BP with the smaller shells. You can use meal coated rice hulls on larger stuff. There is only so much space in the smaller shells, and with decent sized stars lining the inner shell there isnt much room for your burst in the center. Try to keep the end of the timefuse close to the center of the shell so it is centered in the burst. Maybe just leave the booster alone and work on your technique until you perfect your shells. The wrong booster or wrong amount can cause all your stars to blow blind then all of the time and work you put into was for nothing.