Niladmirari Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) My research color mix. Compositions for stars. Base red:NH4ClO4 - 60%Sr(NO3)2 - 15%hexamethylenetetramine - 20%resin - 5% Base green:NH4ClO4 - 60%Ba(NO3)2 - 15%hexamethylenetetramine - 20%resin - 5% Base blue:NH4ClO4 - 60%CuCl - 15%hexamethylenetetramine - 20%resin - 5% Base yellow:NH4ClO4 - 70%Na2C2O4 - 10%hexamethylenetetramine - 15%resin - 5% Violet:12% red + 88% blue Purple:25% red + 75% blue Magenta:50% red + 50% blue Turquoise:12% green + 88% blue Aqua:20% green + 80% blue White blue:25% green + 75% blue Orange:12% yellow + 88% red Yellow green:12% yellow + 88% green Edited February 21, 2014 by Niladmirari 2
Shizznt Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Nice colors Niladmirari. The blue looks pretty good on the ground. What would you use as a prime for these stars?
Niladmirari Posted February 22, 2014 Author Posted February 22, 2014 What would you use as a prime for these stars? Prime:KClO4 - 70%C - 25%resin - 5% (ethanol) Or:KClO4 - 70%C - 25%resin - 5%nitrocellulose - 5% over 100% (acetone) resin it: http://savepic.net/4696991m.gif
burningRNX Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Nice compositions.The look similar to some of engagers formula's listed somewhere here What kind of CuCl do you use? the "green stuff"? or the pure white version?
Zumber Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 well done Niladmirari...!!Keep it up..:-):-)
Niladmirari Posted February 23, 2014 Author Posted February 23, 2014 What kind of CuCl do you use? the "green stuff"? or the pure white version?Green
burningRNX Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) Do you have the same reaction happening with hexamine and (green) CuCl?I wonder what it might be, very anoying collor changing of the mixture when wetted with any solvent Edited February 23, 2014 by burningRNX
Mumbles Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 I don't know why you think it's odd or annoying that you get a color change when mixing transition metals and coordinating compounds. Copper (II) chloride, a component of green "copper (I) chloride", is known to form complexes with hexamine. It looks like it makes a brown compound in the neutral state. Different species form from acidic or basic solution. From what I can tell, copper (I) chloride can interact with it as well, but I haven't been able to find any colors or properties of that.
Niladmirari Posted February 25, 2014 Author Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Hexamethylenetetramine - very bad complexing agent. Compare it with a similar protonation constant in ammonia, the difference of the order of 4.I used CuCl. In reality it: 3Cu (OH)2*CuCl*H2O or CuCl + Cu2OCl2: http://savepic.net/4696611m.png http://savepic.net/4678179m.jpg Edited February 25, 2014 by Niladmirari
Mumbles Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 I'd love to hear your explanation for how the pKa relates to binding strength to a metal. I've even included the relevant pKa's for you. Ammonia: 9.3Hexamine: 6.2 While we're on the subject of your bullshit science, I think you're trying to write the formula 3Cu(OH)2*CuCl2*H2O, which is the formula for copper oxychloride. That horrific excuse for a drawing you posted has absolutely nothing in common with the formula you posted, nor the actual structure of copper oxychloride. Additionally, it's entirely Copper (II). You may want to notice that the page below for the industrial sale of copper oxychloride has the exact same picture that you purport for your copper (I) species. http://vimalcropcare.tradeindia.com/copper-oxychlorides-technical-88--283817.html http://vimalcropcare.tradeindia.com/copper-oxychlorides-technical-88--283817.html
Niladmirari Posted February 25, 2014 Author Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) I apparently incorrectly translated your text. 9.3 - 6.2 = 3,1According to my information 10 - 6 = 4 (difference of the order of 4). White copper chloride (1) when stored in air turns green. He used. You can use copper oxychlorid instead of him. Edited February 25, 2014 by Niladmirari
Niladmirari Posted February 25, 2014 Author Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Most importantly - when mixed hexamine and copper chloride I have not seen the reaction. Edited February 25, 2014 by Niladmirari
Mumbles Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 I apparently incorrectly translated your text. 9.3 - 6.2 = 3,1According to my information 10 - 6 = 4 (difference of the order of 4). White copper chloride (1) when stored in air turns green. He used. You can use copper oxychlorid instead of him. That still offers absolutely no explanation as to how pKa relates to bond strength to metals. I wasn't arguing that ammonia is more basic than hexamine.
burningRNX Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Most importantly - when mixed hexamine and copper chloride I have not seen the reaction.Whitch would be? pure (white) CuCl in the dry state mixed with hexamine? or wetted?
Niladmirari Posted February 26, 2014 Author Posted February 26, 2014 Whitch would be? pure (white) CuCl in the dry state mixed with hexamine? or wetted?I bought copper chloride. He looked like this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Copper(I)_chloride.jpg (green) Components are mixed in dry form. Stars do in acetone or ethanol.
Niladmirari Posted February 26, 2014 Author Posted February 26, 2014 I think admixture of formaldehyde can recover copper.
louie Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 I have always wondered why these formulae are not more popular.I have been a fan of these for many years. I think most people don't like to use Ammonium Perchlorate. These formulae are however very populae in lance.Another one I like isAmmonium Perchlorate 80Copper Benzoate 17Dextrine 4
Mumbles Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 I would think that the lack of availability of copper benzoate is largely responsible. Ammonium perchlorate has it's own set of issues, but a lot of people are not willing to synthesize their own chemicals. It's becoming more available, but it's still expensive enough to not be extremely popular compared to other commercially available colorants.
nater Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 I have been considering make a small batch of copper benzoate to experiment with its use a fuel in whistle compositions. I have opted not use ammonium perchlorate since I do use potassium chlorate for a few things, so a few AP compositions are out.
AzoMittle Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) Bit of a thread necro but I felt this needed to be added: I was able to find the resin he mentioned: http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Phenolic+Resin That page is an entry from The Great Soviet Encyclopedia (1979). It contains the exact image OP posted for his resin. It appears to be a novolac resin. Wikipedia says the following: Hexamethylenetetramine or "hexamine" is a hardener added to crosslink novolac. At a temperature >90 °C, it forms methylene and dimethylene amino bridges. -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenol_formaldehyde_resin#Novolacs Here all of the formulas given directly: (AP = Ammonium Perchlorate; KP = Potassium Perchlorate; NC = Nitrocellulose; SrN = Strontrium Nitrate; BaN = Barium Nitrate; Hex = Hexamine; Phenol = Novolac/Phenolic formaldehyde resin; CuCl = Copper (I) chloride; NaOx = Sodium Oxalate) Base Red60 AP15 SrN20 Hex5 PhenolBase Green60 AP15 BaN20 Hex5 PhenolBase Blue60 AP15 CuCl20 Hex5 PhenolBase Yellow70 AP10 NaOx15 Hex5 PhenolViolet (12 Red : 88 Blue)60 AP20 Hex13.2 CuCl5 Phenol1.8 SrNPurple (25 Red : 75 Blue)60 Ap20 Hex11.25 CuCl5 Phenol3.75 SrNMagenta (50 Red : 50 Blue)60 AP20 Hex7.5 CuCl7.5 SrNTurquoise (12 Green : 88 Blue)60 AP20 Hex13.2 CuCl5 Phenol1.8 SrNAqua (20 Green : 80 Blue)60 AP20 Hex12 CuCl5 Phenol3 BaNWhite-Blue (25 Green : 75 Blue)60 AP20 Hex11.25 CuCl5 Phenol3.75 BaNOrange (12 Yellow : 88 Red)61.2 AP19.4 Hex13.2 SrN5 Phenol1.2 NaOxYellow Green (12 Yellow : 88 Green)61.2 AP19.4 Hex13.2 BaN5 Phenol1.2 NaOx Prime70 KP25 AFC5 Phenol5 NC (Optional)Bind with alcohol Edited May 25, 2016 by AzoMittle
FlaMtnBkr Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) Phenolic resin has been used for quite some time especially by the Chinese and some other countries. It's only fairly recently becoming popular in the US. It can be found but James Widmann of WASP fame that owns CTpyro for selling his machines has imported a lot from China and has been selling it for a few years. It also works with hexamine to cure the resin where it can be used in large comets that cure/dry/harden quickly as opposed to having to wait for a solvent to evaporate. Anyways, just a bit more info on phenolic resin. Edit: more info Edited June 24, 2016 by FlaMtnBkr
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