D1/N1 Glitter: Sodium Oxalate?

[Wiley]

Has anyone substituted sodium oxalate for the sodium bicarbonate normally used in D1 or N1 glitter formulations, and if so, is the performance appreciably changed?

 

D1 Glitter

 

53.00% Potassium Nitrate

18.00% Sulfur 1

1.00% Charcoal (airfloat)

7.00% Aluminium (-325 mesh, spherical)

7.00% Sodium Bicarbonate

4.00% Dextrin

 

Edited February 16, 2014 by Wiley

[Wiley]

Wait a minute, sodium bicarbonate is baking soda! Arm and Hammer states that it's 100% pure sodium bicarbonate. Seems reasonable to believe that I could use that in the formula. Has anyone else done it?

[Peret]

Absolutely it's just baking soda! I hope you didn't pay $20 a pound from a pyro vendor.

 

Sodium oxalate will completely change the performance - it makes a rich gold twinkler. The sodium in D1/N1 doesn't yellow it for some reason.

[Wiley]

I've been looking on eBay for chemicals that they actually can sell. KNO3 is very cheap as "stump remover." This sulfur looks good: http://www.ebay.com/itm/3LB-SULPHUR-POWDER-VAPORIZER-SULFUR-BURNER-SULFER-/151035002117?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item232a633d05. About the only really important glitter component that I can't find on there is 325 atomized Al. This looks like the right stuff, but a little expensive: http://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Powder-30-micron-Pounds/dp/B005QFYBUY/ref=pd_sim_sbs_misc_3 . This on the other hand is a really reasonable price: http://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Powder-Micron-Mesh-99-9/dp/B00ERLFN5U/ref=pd_sim_indust_1. Does that look like it will do for a glitter composition?

Edited February 16, 2014 by Wiley

[asdercks]

@ wiley, hey if you in the u.s you should check hobbychemicals.com, pastimepyrochemicals.com, pyrochemsource.com for chemicals they have a great variety of chems and reasonable good prices also there is a couple of members here on APC that are selling kno3 really cheap californiapyro and lambentpyro

[Wiley]

The shipping from each of those places is a tad ridiculous. That's why I'm looking for outside sources that offer either free or reasonable shipping.

For now, I just need to know if 30 micron atomized aluminum will work nicely in a D1/N1 glitter formulation.

[asdercks]

both formulas use 325 mesh atomized aluminum which is about 30-32 microns so I'd say yes 30 micron will work fine

[Wiley]

I know it isn't common to cut glitter stars, but I think it would be interesting to give it a try. I know Wonderboy has done it, and the description of the "glitter kit" available from Hobby Chem Supply mentions using thinned wheat paste to make cut stars. I do not have "real" wheat paste, but I do have wallpaper paste. It's about the consistency of yoghurt. If I thinned that just a bit, would it work for binding cut glitter stars, without ruining the glitter effect?

[schroedinger]

Why don't just make whaetpaste yourself, or use dextrin?

[Wiley]

I've heard that dextrin requires too much water to solvate, and thus the glitter effect suffers from over-wetting.

[Mumbles]

I'm not sure where you got the impression that cutting glitters isn't all that common. It's actually incredibly common. Most glitters work equally well cut, pumped, or rolled. Certain formulas can be better suited for one method or another though. Each method of forming does give a slightly different effect though. In general, I find pressed stars to be more fine grained, where as cut or rolled tend to be a bit more coarse grained and have bigger, but more infrequent flashes.

 

I'd be wary of using any pre-made liquid wallpaper adhesive. What you really want to use is wheat paste, and not all wallpaper paste is actually wheat paste. It's easy enough to make at home by boiling water and flour though. If you're looking for something commercial, Golden Harvest brand is generally recommended. I'd also suggest getting the powder that you make into paste yourself. You want to avoid anything that is vinyl based.

 

The amount of water isn't a problem, it's the speed at which the stars are dried. If you let them sit around soaking wet for too long, you'll risk damaging the effect. However, there is a fine interplay here. If you get them too hot in an attempt to dry them quicker, you'll definitely ruin the effect and risk starting a chain reaction. I cut glitter stars all the time with dextrin, and it turns out fine. I generally put a fan in front of them to give good airflow, without heating them up like in a drying chamber. It works fine, I assure you.

 

Here are two pumped comets that were dried too hot. Normally the tail is close to 100-150 feet long.

 

You can see some cut glitter stars here in one of the shells. You'll see they're glittering just fine.

[Wiley]

Thanks Mumbles! Yes, I was somehow under the impression that pumping was the primary method of making glitters, and that cutting was an inferior method because of the high moisture content. So you air dry them at room temperature with a fan blowing on them?

[Mumbles]

Like I mentioned, the effect will be different. About all I can say is to try them out and see what you like best. Everyone has their own personal preferences. Shooting star mines of the stars typically is a good way to compare. However yes, it's not impossible to cut glitter stars. I just air dry them with a fan. It's really more about getting the bulk of the water gone in the first few days. Once you get below a certain threshold percentage of moisture, they seem much less likely to degrade much for some reason.

[LambentPyro]

The shipping from each of those places is a tad ridiculous. That's why I'm looking for outside sources that offer either free or reasonable shipping.

 

For now, I just need to know if 30 micron atomized aluminum will work nicely in a D1/N1 glitter formulation.

I do not have ridiculous shipping for KNO₃ like most suppliers do.

[Mumbles]

Just make sure cheap doesn't mean illegal.

[Wiley]

Nope, I just talked with Lambent. Priority Mail. And a great price on KNO3 too!

[Mumbles]

I'll make sure to send Lambent a private message.