Throwable fire extinguisher

[caineroad]

I've been trying to find a way to make something like this, is a grenade that is able to put out small fire in emergency situation. Does anyone have any idea how to make something like this?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W02KQMRA6gA

 

 

http://www.geekosystem.com/throwable-fire-extinguisher/

 

 

Edited February 13, 2014 by caineroad

[Mumbles]

Based on the description it looks like a bottle of either solid or solution ammonium carbonate or bicarbonate. They both decompose readily into ammonia, water, and carbon dioxide at slightly above room temperature. They of course wont work for fires that have their own source of oxygen, like all pyro fires.

[LambentPyro]

Based on the description it looks like a bottle of either solid or solution ammonium carbonate or bicarbonate. They both decompose readily into ammonia, water, and carbon dioxide at slightly above room temperature. They of course wont work for fires that have their own source of oxygen, like all pyro fires.

So it wouldn't work for a house fire/wood fire, electrical fire, or a grass fire?

[californiapyro]

huh?

[caineroad]

So it wouldn't work for a house fire/wood fire, electrical fire, or a grass fire?

 

It will work for sure on wood and grass fire. What he is trying to say is fire extinguisher cannot put out fire that has its own source of oxygen supply.

 

[BrainDamage]

never seen any thing like that but very cool

[LambentPyro]

It will work for sure on wood and grass fire. What he is trying to say is fire extinguisher cannot put out fire that has its own source of oxygen supply.

Oh, I misread it, haha

[MWJ]

I really like that! It beats trying to find water in the forest where their isn't any.

[BrainDamage]

I really like that! It beats trying to find water in the forest where their isn't any.

yea

[nater]

Those "fire grenades" don't work all that well anyway. A forest or field fire typically has much more fuel available to burn than those are practical for. A good ABC extinguisher and knowing how to use it is a better alternative.

 

What type of use are you wanting them for?

[caineroad]

Those "fire grenades" don't work all that well anyway. A forest or field fire typically has much more fuel available to burn than those are practical for. A good ABC extinguisher and knowing how to use it is a better alternative.

 

What type of use are you wanting them for?

 

Afraid I can't disagree, these fire extinguishers when used outdoor are only meant to 'buy you time', by putting out small area of the fire for you to escape (ex. surrounded by fire or need to walk across the fire). They can't put out the whole fire. However they work extremely well indoors, like in storage rooms and bedrooms.

 

I just want to have something on my hand able to put out small fire shall my project accidentally went wrong.

[psyco_1322]

Those "fire grenades" don't work all that well anyway. A forest or field fire typically has much more fuel available to burn than those are practical for. A good ABC extinguisher and knowing how to use it is a better alternative.

 

What type of use are you wanting them for?

 

Are you saying we should use the ABC extinguisher on forest and field fires?

 

I think they look like they would work decently well. Given it's in a small area and not outside in the open. Nifty idea for sure.

[nater]

For a field fire, nothing beats an Indian pack. They have a hand pump contained in the nozzle so you don't need an air compressor to recharge it.

 

For general home / shop use, I would recommend an ABC. Water extinguishers are perfect for shoot sites. For pyro fires, know your battle before it gets out of hand. Metals and oxidizer fires can be very difficult to put out. Remember for a fire you need fuel, heat, oxygen and the ability to sustain the chemical reaction. By their nature, pyro comps are designed to do all those things.

 

I have used some of those fire grenades in training and they worked okay on burning hay bales and pallets in a contained room. I like extinguishers better.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Anyone have experience with those newer extinguishers that are in a small can and are supposed to be the equivalent of a larger traditional extinguisher? I guess they use a different type of propellant?

 

They look like they would be good because they are small enough that they can be stashed just about anywhere and aren't supposed to lose pressure over time. I think they might lock open and could be tossed into a room while you get out or get to better equipment. I guess you would only want to do that in a small enclosure and would want to use it the traditional way if it wouldn't fill the space and start to choke it out.

 

As stated, a pyro comp will keep burning until it is all consumed and an extinguisher won't stop it, just anything else it sets on fire. If working on pyro and there is a fire your best bet is to run until you are positive all pyro material is done burning. It is better to lose a building than being seriously burned or killed trying to put out something that can't be put out.

[chemtech89]

How about a water balloon?

[Wolverine]

These Bonex extinguishers rely heavily on the same principle as the old halon systems did and current co2 extinguishers do etc.. I.e they displace oxygen to choke out the fire. In the case of the sat119 this is done by a liquid chemical composition that reacts in the fire to produce large amounts of ammonia and carbon gasses. So Mumbles is dead right. Beyond that their device is exceedingly simple the canister is a fragile plastic container that shatters easily upon impact.
They also have an ABC version and a couple other interesting products available.

Bonex

Edited February 28, 2014 by Wolverine

[Extrarius]

Aside from fuel and oxygen, a fire also needs enough heat to propagate the reaction. This provides a potential method for a fire extinguisher that can put out compositions containing an oxidizer. Depending on the comp, there are many possibilities for removing the heat:

Something with a low boiling point and a good heat of vaporization (like water)

Something that can act as a heat sink to spread the heat out away from the comp (maybe granulated copper)

Something that will react endothermically in the combustion space (multi-level decomposition of calcium carbonate, for ex).

 

Or maybe a combination of the above, like a saturated solution of calcium carbonate in water.

 

Depending on the "packaging" of the comp, a fluid (water, pressurized air or co2, etc) might help simply by dispersing the composition and getting the unreacted comp away from the heat. Of course, there are downsides to dispersing a flaming mass, and "side effects" like steam explosions need to be kept in mind.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Extrarius

[nater]

Dispersing a fire with pressurized air??! Why would you say such a thing?!

 

(I lost a longer reply, but that needs to be pointed out before someone burns their house down thinking it is a good idea to fight fire with an air compressor)

[Extrarius]

Dispersing a fire with pressurized air??! Why would you say such a thing?!

 

(I lost a longer reply, but that needs to be pointed out before someone burns their house down thinking it is a good idea to fight fire with an air compressor)

 

I'm not saying it is a generally good idea, but it isn't automatically a bad one since a burning fuel-oxidizer composition isn't the same as a typical fuel-air fire. If the composition is balanced or oxidizer-heavy, pressurized air would actually reduce the oxygen available for combustion. It could also separate a burning "mild" composition (such as a delay composition) from a much more dangerous element (such as a report composition at the other end of the delay). It might create a fuel-air explosion, but exploding delay composition might be less damaging than combusting report composition. Or, it might send everything flying, and just get it all over with sooner.

Caveat emptor. Caveat venditor. Caveat omnes!

[nater]

1. You are adding air to a fire, or more oxygen. If for some reason you have an oxygen starved fire, you have just created a disastor.

 

2. You are now spreading more flaming stuff around to be exposed to more fuel and spreading the fire. This can happen with water from a firehose too, so air is not the only culprit.

 

DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS FOOL AND USE COMPRESSED AIR TO FIGHT A FIRE!!!!!!

[Wolverine]

 

I'm not saying it is a generally good idea, but it isn't automatically a bad one since a burning fuel-oxidizer composition isn't the same as a typical fuel-air fire. If the composition is balanced or oxidizer-heavy, pressurized air would actually reduce the oxygen available for combustion. It could also separate a burning "mild" composition (such as a delay composition) from a much more dangerous element (such as a report composition at the other end of the delay). It might create a fuel-air explosion, but exploding delay composition might be less damaging than combusting report composition. Or, it might send everything flying, and just get it all over with sooner.

Caveat emptor. Caveat venditor. Caveat omnes!

This is all moot, it has been well established in this thread that what we are talking about would be useless for such a fire and hence we weren't talking about that. What we were talking about was the Bonex extinguishers and how they might be made not (I repeat) how to make them put out a fuel oxidiser composition.

The ONLY role compressed air has in fire suppression is in water or foam filled hand-held extinguishers where it is used to propel the water/foam and ideally never makes it past the syphon tube, remaining in the extinguisher.

In the suppression industry we do use Carbon Dioxide and Nitrogen in much the same capacity in various different systems, but again these too don't make it past the pick up tube in the chemical tanks. (Except in the case of a CO2 Class BC extinguisher)

These of coarse all completely useless in oxidiser containing fires.

 

Edit:

I almost forgot by no means should any flammable substance in powdered form be dispersed in presence of flame or cinder EVER. If it is made airborne (oxidiser or not) it can make the situation go from a nasty fire to the entire building/ area w/e becoming a giant bomb. Ever seen a grain silo blow?

 

-Professional Fire Suppression Technician

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2014 by Wolverine

[hindsight]

In wartime situations, recall the use of explosives to put out fires, presumably by using up the oxygen needed to propagate the timber/wood-based fires. Crazy, eh!

[Wolverine]

In wartime situations, recall the use of explosives to put out fires, presumably by using up the oxygen needed to propagate the timber/wood-based fires. Crazy, eh!

I considered mentioning the use of flash grenades etc. to put out fires. Also the antiquated use of cylinders filled with nitroglycerine and later plain dynamite to put out oil well fires (not to mention my favorite episode of Macgyver) in my rant but decided against it lol.

That's when fire-fighters were fire-fighters damn it!

 

 

[Arthur]

FAR better than DIY options is a commercial retail available fire extinguisher. A two gallon water extinguisher will buy you exit time -or even extinguish the blaze.

Water by the bucket full, or sand in buckets can also help. A damp bucketful of sand will smother a firework that's burning and take the heat for the duration of the burn.

[Extrarius]

I apologize if I made no constructive contributions to this thread. I made a sincere effort to establish a specific hypothetical context in my posts using qualifiers, conditions, and constraints. My initial post in this thread used a single extra word among many to mention compressed air, but I obviously failed to effectively communicate since multiple people seem to think I was directing readers to use compressed air as a general fire-fighting technique.

 

I would not suggest compressed air to anybody as a general or primary firefighting technique. To a general audience, I would suggest that compressed air is an option that need never be considered.

 

To the kind of specialized audience I think would inhabit a place like this, I hope that potential consequences like fuel-air explosions and other basics of chemistry, combustion, and pyrotechnics would be well understood before acting on the kind of hypothetical possibilities I offered.