Maserface Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 In the beginning, it was to do with CATOs. High ramming pressures forced the powder into the surface of the paper tube and compressed it lengthways, then as it relaxed like a spring afterward it put the pressed powder into tension and cracked it, resulting in CATOs. The wax cured that, and then other advantages appeared. On Fireworking dot com they're calling it the biggest advance in amateur rockets since the invention of the stick.Second only to the acme test stand
nater Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Wolter Pyro Tools is now offering a rocket tube waxing kit. What you get is an aluminum rod, threaded on both ends. It has felt washers sized for a friction fit on whatever size you order and a nice T handle for the opposite side. Included is also a pound of paraffin wax and a copy of Dave F's article published by AFN with the background and instructions of the process. The motor tube is not included, that is a 1" or 3 lb NEPT, 10" long as a size reference.
leedrill Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 nice i have made my own very similar but great to know that the process has been commercialised is for the better of the rocketry community
Bobosan Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Not knocking Wolter tools, because they are fine tools. However, a pistol cleaning rod and a shotgun mop would do the same thing. Paraffin wax can be found in the canning section of a big box grocery. Edited March 23, 2014 by Bobosan
nater Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) You are correct. One could make the same thing with a trip to the hardware store. The kit with the instructions is nice and I thought some here might be interested. Wax can be surprisingly hard to find at times. Even in my mid sized city, I went to 5 stores before I found a few blocks. Edited March 23, 2014 by nater
leedrill Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 pure parafin wax is a lot better than the candles i use to do my tubes but hey it works just need a bit thicker of a coating but im with you nater just good to see the kit on offer will start people talking and using this method more many thanks to MR forster for thinking logically and working on this and letting it out into the world for us to use dont know if hes a member on apc but would love to chat with him oneday he seems to have quite a mind for the technical simplicity needed for this hobby
Mumbles Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I don't know if he's a member here, but he's certainly active on Fireworking.com and used to be fairly active on passfire. Very nice guy, and just has this knack. I've exchanged e-mails and messages with him several times.
schroedinger Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 What's the advantage of the method using this tool over the method ned describes using a cone and pulling molten wax through the tube
ddewees Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 No advantage, just one method may be easier for some.
Maserface Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 http://www.candlewic.com/store/Product.aspx?q=c49,p1075&title=Paraffin-Wax-140 is what I use, I have way to much. also, jute twine wound between two nuts on a threaded rod and friction fitted to the tube works well for me, and is quite an easy setup. Ill get pics of my daubers later today
mikeee Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 When time allows, I plan on trying some liquid spray wax or paste wax on some tubes to see if it will work the same.The traditional method involves heating the wax and pouring or swabbing thru the motor tube.An even layer of wax on the inner wall of the tube helps lubricate the fuel grains while pressing and creates a barrier between the tube and the fuel.This process reduces the number of cato's to almost zero.
ddewees Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 So... are you saying I can put the hottest fuel imaginable, with! a nozzle and have no fear of cato?!?!
Maserface Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 So... are you saying I can put the hottest fuel imaginable, with! a nozzle and have no fear of cato?!?!Yes and no
hindsight Posted March 23, 2014 Author Posted March 23, 2014 If you could accomplish the same results with a room temperature dauber or spray, the use of hot paraffin would seem much less attractive.
Maserface Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 If you could accomplish the same results with a room temperature dauber or spray, the use of hot paraffin would seem much less attractive.The problem with room temperature application is that it could have the tendency to migrate into the tube or the fuel grain, Vaseline has been suggested and is being tested, solvents have been used but that adds complexity, cost, and time while the application dries. It's not a very difficult or complicated process and for me the results manifest immediately.
ddewees Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 If I remember correctly, 70 percent of your rockets cato'd at wwb... just sayin.
DavidF Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Hello all. This is my first post. Waxing the rocket tubes is my discovery. When I tried to use straight alcohol-granulated 75-15-10 as fuel in nozzleless rockets, they CATOed. When I applied wax to the inside of the rocket tubes before pressing, they did not. So I tried longer spindles and had more power but no CATO. I have achieved about 87 pounds of peak thrust on a nozzleless 1# BP rocket with a spindle 6.5" long on the tapered portion. I have lifted a 6" ball shell on a regular 1# BP rocket with a nozzle. It was not a high flyer. But it flew straight up and displayed at around 300'. I have pressed whistle rockets with SLD#2 salicylate fuel on both universal tooling and on black powder tooling all the way up the spindle with no CATO. I have video proof of all my claims. If others can achieve these results already, the waxing will not improve things. I sincerely appreciate the kind things that have been said about my method and myself. I also understand the skepticism a new idea such as this is met with. Of course, waxing the tubes will not help if the rocket or driver or gerbe is poorly made. However, it does address the main cause of CATO in an otherwise well-made rocket. It prevents fire from entering the interface between the fuel grain and the tube. Edited March 23, 2014 by DavidF
ddewees Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 2 catos isn't 70% it depends on how many you lit. I'm just messing with you... I thought you had more than that...
ollie1016 Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 What's that supposed to mean? Please let the secret out for those of us who don't always like to pay to play.Ned has done a YouTube video covering the topic, including a tutorial.
hindsight Posted March 24, 2014 Author Posted March 24, 2014 Welcome DavidF! It is an honor to have you here with us on APC. 87lbs peak thrust on a 1 pounder sounds phenomenal. Not tried waxing yet, but I'm sold. --hindsight
leedrill Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 indeed great to see you make an appearance on apc davef seeing how crowded with posts apc becomes i still hope you stay intouch with some of the threads that involve your ideas such as this one when i first read about your method i thought what difference could it make then reading into it more and realising that it suited me well i have never added any oils or vaso ect ect to my fuels and struggled to stop catos when using nozzles your method was the thing that made me switch to nozzle less motors and i always hated that when i pressed whistle it was a dream {because of the vaso } but bp motors where just so so much slower when anything added to the fuel this has solved that problem for me no more creaking no more catos even with a 70/20/10 and a nozzle which was not achievable to me before and if i added to the fuel i may aswell of just used 60/30/10 instead but now hot as i can make bp in a nozzless motor and i can still extend my spndle a bit if needed am very happy with the difference this made to being able to make better rockets and being able to use the one ratio of bp for all my building applications id love to see some of the videos of your testing if your willing to share
skid68 Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 it depends on how many you lit. I'm just messing with you... I thought you had more than that...Well only two with this group. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAE3f50cZMk
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