jaysgoh Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) Hey guys, I would like to ask that why commercial black powder that I obtain from a commercial 2 inch festival ball is way way better than my black powder? Commercial Black Powder :Much more 'shiny' Less mess, clean(no powder in containers just granular) Very fast and it make a thump Very tuff and hard to break! When come to water, it still stay in granular form unless break it with spoon Homemade Black Powder No 'shiny' Messy, as in the container will left powder form after you scoop it hardly. Not as fast as commercial Very.. Fragile, break easily When come with water, it dissolve easily. How come? I like the shiny, solidly, messy less and better bp. Is it possible we can make it ourselves? *after searching, I think they using this formula : potassium nitrate 74 Graphite 14 Sulfur 12Am I correct? Edited January 19, 2014 by gohjiejing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroedinger Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Propably not. Graphite would give a lousy bp. It's propably more because they maybe polish for better handling on machines. Also make the bp throught granulation by compressing into pucks, which get broken up. Also prob other binders, also the reason why you don't find any powder is, the commercial bp gets graded, so all the fines are screened out. But why don't you used the search, the exact same discussion was started last week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LambentPyro Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) The shiny powder is made from tumbling the granulated powder with a ting percentage of Graphite. They do not use Graphite as the primary fuel. Graphite for BP sucks ass. They use charcoal just like us. I don't believe they use Dextrin, but don't count me on that. They do corn it which keeps it somewhat harder than pulverone stuff. You can make faster stuff than Commercial, try using Eastern Red Cedar Charcoal, Red Stem Willow, Paulownia, Balsa, etc. You will find it outperforms commercial stuff very easily. You can also screen out the fines too, when I'm pretty bored, I'll go ahead and do it. Edited January 19, 2014 by LambentPyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 First things first, get good charcoal (basically anything), and a ball mill. Until you have the right tools, you wont be able to pull fast powder out of thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdercks Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 First things first, get good charcoal (basically anything), and a ball mill. Until you have the right tools, you wont be able to pull fast powder out of thin air. sorry dude but not "any" charcoal will give excellent results, if he wants to outperform commercial bp he has to use "hot" charcoals like the ones lambent mentioned, and I agree with you that he needs to get the right tools, but also learning to use them helps, like properly loading a ball mill with the right ratio between powder and grinding media, having the right rpm etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 You really have to try pretty damn hard to find wood that isn't good enough, pine, cedar, alder, are all easily available in chips, shavings, or raw lumber. I'm not convinced that OP is really interested because his question has been asked and answered thousands of times. Iirc op is using art charcoal and a mortar and pestle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Just about all the charcoal I made from wood from my property was as hot, to much hotter, than Goex. I agree, just about any properly made charcoal will be as hot as commercial Goex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddewees Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Just about all the charcoal I made from wood from my property was as hot, to much hotter, than Goex. I agree, just about any properly made charcoal will be as hot as commercial Goex.What is GOEX made from (charcoal)? You often hear (read) people saying that GOEX is inferior to "their" bp... why do you suppose GOEX makes an "inferior" product? Are they incapable... or is it by design? I'm just curious... Edited January 20, 2014 by ddewees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Probably dictated by what they can get the cheapest, I'd bet it is something similar to what is made for briquettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LambentPyro Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 It's for cost purposes, they don't have too much of a market anymore. Either people make their powder or find out if their local gun store carries it. The hazmat shipping fee is like $30. You can make like 15 lbs. of BP with $45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdercks Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 hazmat fees really suck, I'll never buy commercial bp again, besides my willow bp burns hot,really hot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 GOEX is alleged to use maple, or at least a blend primarily composed of maple. They also don't strive for the hottest BP. They make BP primarily for firearms, for which it is well suited. They have other properties they strive for over simply absolute speed. It's not difficult to make something that burns faster than GOEX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddewees Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 That's what I figured... but noticed they make "pyro grade" and blasting powders as well. I often purchase GOEX in 25 lb bags because it's available here locally, and I personally hate making my own. Thanks for the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 As mumbles said, much of Goex is made for firearms. They want consistency so that a gun is fairly accurate from shot to shot. They don't want the hottest powder so that they risk blowing up guns. I would imagine there is some type of test that they strive for so that a rifle has an appropriate amount of power with the range of grains recommended for a gun. Back when BP was all that was available for firearms, there was hotter powder for pistols and even hotter powder for shotguns, similar to smokeless today. And one of the main reasons BP is pressed and corned at a uniform density is so that a load can be measured by volume and it be the same weight each time. Goex isn't real hard to beat, but its a good consistent measure to compare to. BP has different uses and the absolute hottest powder isn't needed for most things. For me Goex is a good speed to achieve for. But I also like to see how hot I can make powder out of curiosity. And it works good in nozzleless rockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LambentPyro Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 That's what I figured... but noticed they make "pyro grade" and blasting powders as well.I often purchase GOEX in 25 lb bags because it's available here locally, and I personally hate making my own. Thanks for the replies.You need an ATF license to buy blasting powders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I'm curious what the difference is in their "pyro grade" - also blasting powder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Yeah I haven't heard of pyro grade either. Wonder if that could be something like fuse powder. And blasting powder isn't available to most people. I have more time than money and BP is one of the easier pyro material to make. It can be made pretty cheap with Ag grade nitrate and home made charcoal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 We will get to the bottom of this!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddewees Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 https://www.powderinc.com/blackpowder.htm#BLASTING POWDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 interesting. sodium nitrate is slightly more soluble than strontium nitrate, sounds like too much trouble compared to other "blasting" powders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 What does strontium nitrate have to do with anything? Also, for what it's worth, both FA and FB powders are blasting powders. It's just that FA also tends to be used in fireworks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddewees Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Correct. The box of 2FA I have states blasting right on the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 What does strontium nitrate have to do with anything? Also, for what it's worth, both FA and FB powders are blasting powders. It's just that FA also tends to be used in fireworks. thinking out loud. I compare everything to strontium nitrate in terms of solubility. I know how much of a pain it can be so if sodium nitrate is more soluble (which it is) I dont think ill bother with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparx88 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I read somewhere once that goex and maybe some others use a "glazing" step in the process? ICBW Maybe done after the grain sizes are separated and tumbled with a fine mist of something that dries fast and hard? I don't know.I used to think back when I got my first bp rifle that wet BP was spread into thin sheets, sprayed with a hardener, dried and then vibrated to break up the sheet into the grain sizes, sifted, sorted and then tumbled one last time in graphite to polish em off lol. But we know it starts as big friggin pucks. Makes sense, safe way to store it. But so far as I am new to making BP, I like what I'm making better than goex now. These guys taught me right and I don't think I'll look back at commercial anymore. It's a feeling of pride and it feels good. Any small shortcomings one's own product may have vs the competition at least for me is not even close to ruining my mood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Solubility does not correlate to how hygroscopic a chemical is. I have seen you mention solubility of various chemicals a few times and that doesn't really tell you anything unless you want to dissolve some in water. FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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