MWJ Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) This is my test video with my home made Pine charcoal test. What do you guys think? Is it OK? This is before I granulated it, so I guess it's called "Meal Powder"? I don't want to make a bunch of this charcoal until I know it's worth doing. After I got done it looked like I just got home from another forest fire. My first bp test - Meal Powder.AVI Edited January 12, 2014 by MWJ
Bobosan Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Is this BP hand mixed and screened? If so, speed will improve with ball milling and your residue should be less as long as your ratios are correct. Ideally, your BP mixture should be passed through a 60 mesh screen at least three times to ensure consolidation if you hand mix. Granulating with distilled hot water should help also. Congrats on the first batch, it did burn consistently despite the wind. p.s. - ditch the wallyworld POS lighter and get a Bernzomatic self igniting propane torch head. p.p.s. - go ahead with the charcoal making. You can always use it for later BP or star comps. Edited January 12, 2014 by Bobosan
MWJ Posted January 12, 2014 Author Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) I do have a good torch but I didn't want the flame pressure to blow the powder all over. I'll go ahead and make a bigger batch then ball mill it like you said. So far the only screens I have are 20 mesh and 40 mesh. Thanks for the advice and comments. What do you think of the charcoal for bp base? Whats "later bp"? Sorry, I'm new to this still. Edited January 12, 2014 by MWJ
pyrokid Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 If that was simply hand mixed powder, it looks like it will be just fine when you mill it. The charcoal should work well for whatever you want it for.
Bobosan Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 MWJ, "later BP" meaning once you get a ball mill or start making charcoal based stars using pine. Pine seems to be the charcoal of preference for long hang time stars such as Crysanthemum 6 and Tiger Tail and it makes good BP with a ball mill.
Oinikis Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 i suggest you geting a youtube chanel and uploading videos there. it will be easier to watch, and sometimes some people lurk APC on mobile devices, and not all devices can download. just a lil' tip.the powder was nice. for non ball miled powder, it burned really well, and charcoal must be really awesome, becouse it produced little sparks, and burned well. ballmiling makes a huge impact. but i think if you granulate this powder you'll be able to make some bangs, but not very powerfull.
MWJ Posted January 12, 2014 Author Posted January 12, 2014 yes all I did was hand mixed it. I do have a rock tumbler but haven't used it yet. I have to find a good place to put it, far away from my house to mill the mixed bp. I wanted to see if the charcoal was worth using before I put a lot of effort into it all. I live in the country and I just removed some charcoal from my wood stove and cooled it off in the snow and covered it to smother the fire. I have A lot of pine here and can make a ton if I wanted too. I wish I could share some of it with all of you. Everyone here has been so helpful with all of this I really do appreciate it. All of your comments are great. I'm not sure what a youtube channel is but I'll look into it, Thanks. I guess I've been in the woods too long. I just granulated the rest of what I made but used cold water (no dextrin). I'll do another test with it after it drys out good.
MWJ Posted January 12, 2014 Author Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Ok, Heres my second test, Hand mixed, screened with a 40 mesh screen 3 times, then granulated and dried. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwx-V-xlHgg&feature=youtu.be Thanks for the Youtube tip! Edited January 12, 2014 by MWJ
Bobosan Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 Looked faster to me. Granulating definitely helped. That batch dried quickly. Charcoal tends to take forever (it seems like) to dry out. One way to determine if charcoal is dry is to measure out a gram or two right after granulation and note the weight.Weigh it again after so many minutes, hours, days, weeks, etc until you have no more weight loss due to water evaporation with the one or two gram sample. This method can be used with charcoal based stars as well.
MWJ Posted January 13, 2014 Author Posted January 13, 2014 Thanks Bobosan, I'll try that next time. I only made 1 ounce this time. Next step is to try and ball mill it all. All of the chem go through a 40 mesh screen. I saw on Granger that they have screens at $5.00 for a 12"x 12" piece http://www.grainger.com/product/Wire-Cloth-3AKP6?s_pp=false, I want to get some more chemicals first then screens next. I made a couple of frames and a nice box to set them in when I screen my chemicals. My charcoal probally dried quick because I only made a little. I want to make some stars next but don't have any rockets to send them up and test them. I'll make a press with a wood dowel and a piece of sch. 40 PVC pipe.
pyrokid Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 MWJ is that powder for end burners or core burners?
MWJ Posted January 13, 2014 Author Posted January 13, 2014 I'm thinking I would like to try it for end burners. What do you think?
Sparx88 Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 I can tell you that these guys are right. The Ball Mill is King. Let that stuff mill for 3-4 hours in there and then test. It will amaze you.
MWJ Posted January 13, 2014 Author Posted January 13, 2014 I will. Thanks. Should I mill the chemicals separately or together? Would I get the same results? I know if I mill bp I'll have to put the mill away from the house and pets and use an extension cord to turn it on and off. All I have for media is some 180 grain .30 cal. brass for reloading,
LambentPyro Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) I will. Thanks. Should I mill the chemicals separately or together? Would I get the same results? I know if I mill bp I'll have to put the mill away from the house and pets and use an extension cord to turn it on and off. All I have for media is some 180 grain .30 cal. brass for reloading,Yes, mill the chems together, but away from your dwelling and other people at least 500 feet. What type of ball mill are you planning to get? Buy media from LeadBalls (Steve Young), you can contact him on this forum as he is a member. His product is the best I've ever come across and I swear is harder than granite!!! Lead media is the best for ball milling IMO, but some people like slightly inferior products such as Alumina, or super expensive solid Brass media. By the way, Alumina is still pretty expensive, when you can achieve better results for a somewhat comparable result. You can tell I swear by my Lead! Edited January 13, 2014 by LambentPyro
dan999ification Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) I mill 3 hrs, the charcoal is already nearly air float the nitrate is like salt, purer finer chems take less time to mill bp with. A few grams will be hard to get an accurate measurement on, I typically do 100g batches weigh it untill it stops losing weight, but if it has under 2% moisture it is still usable if not better.my bp dries in a day, it depends how and where you dry it and how wet you got it in the first place. If you weigh the powder and the water ( or g per ml ) you know exactly how dry it is and when it will be Honestly my 60/30/10 meal is faster than that ( my first bp was not ) but regardless Of the fuel Speed... Nozzle size can make all the difference in squeezing more power out of it, though I think with a small nozzle that this fuel will need it may clog with the slag left. The mill is king. Dan. Edited January 13, 2014 by dan999ification
MWJ Posted January 13, 2014 Author Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) I already have a mill or a rock tumbler, it's old but it still works good. I just got done milling my P. Nitrate, it's very fine powder now but a bit grey in color. Probably from the mill canister or the brass I used. I'll make my comp. then re-mill the mix. I used a coffee mill for my charcoal and sulfur already. I'll have to save up a bit for the lead balls. I milled the KN03 for 15 hours. I wasn't sure how well the brass would do but it looks like it worked great. I agree the mill IS king! How much does Leadballs charge for lead? Edited January 13, 2014 by MWJ
MWJ Posted January 22, 2014 Author Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) This is my third and final test of my BP with my home made Pine Charcoal. I removed the charcoal from my wood stove when the coals were red hot then cooled it off in a steel bucket and covered it to smother it. As you can see, ball milling it made it a lot faster. My question is: Do you think this BP will work for rockets? BP Test 3.AVI Edited January 22, 2014 by MWJ
Mumbles Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Looks pretty good to me. It should work for end burners or nozzleless rockets. It's almost certainly way too fast for core burners.
Bobosan Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Nice burn rate. You should be able to lift some rockets or shells with it now.
MWJ Posted January 22, 2014 Author Posted January 22, 2014 Very cool. thanks for all of your help. The ball mill is definitely worth while doing. Can't wait until I can get some tubes, clay and a rocket tooling. I'm a happy camper now.
MWJ Posted January 22, 2014 Author Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Thanks again! Edited January 22, 2014 by MWJ 1
MWJ Posted January 23, 2014 Author Posted January 23, 2014 Heres a test for sparx88 as per request. DSCN0427.AVI 1
Sparx88 Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Nice job. Not at all bad for pine. 1 gram in the middle of a 4" square. I have a thousand, maybe 2 of different pines all around and only 2 paulownias. so using some of the pine for star comps looks like it's a go. I'll use the pauls for the booms. Sorry I don't have video yet, I cooked my iphone trying to...um.., well it is'nt fixed yet and the old phone I'm using don't have video/picture. I will borrow my brothers cam corder next I see him and do that Edited January 23, 2014 by Sparx88
Bobosan Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) ....and that's using pine charcoal. If you should ever delve deeper into BP production you'll find that "light" charcoals like willow, balsa, red cedar, paulownia produce a faster burn after ball milling. As you have discovered, ball milling is king for good BP. However, there are uses such as gerbs and fountains that don't require fast BP burn rates. Hand mixing and screening are usually all you need for these devices. If you want to read up on charcoal types - http://www.creagan.net/fireworks/charcoal_tests.html Glad we could help you along. Edited January 23, 2014 by Bobosan
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