BP questions.

[Sparx88]

Now I'm at another confused place in BP bliss. Do we want to cook the mixture or dry mix? I know to mill all 3 before hand, but don't we have to mill it again after it's mixed and cooked? If I dry mix it, it's not quite fast enough, though -almost- goex. If I cook it in water but not let it boil, just bring to a simmer then set aside and let cool. Then add a small amount of alcohol and stir it up good, then filter through some cotton or coffee filter and lightly squeeze out the excess liquid. Then press through a strainer, it's a 20 mesh and allow to dry fully. Then break it up until you have the desired granule size passing through the strainer. Well when I do that it don't burn right it's floaty when it burns. But if I grind some back down to 325 mesh, things get right lively. With sulfur, I'm using the 70/20/10 mix and sulfurless the 80/20. The sulfurless is a little faster but won't make things go high or far, the gaseous expulsion regime.

 

I have the right charcoal, 99.8 % sulfur, and I'm still using the spectracide stump remover kn03. Have 2 bottles yet. Could that be it? The kn03? It's data sheet says it's 100 %. I need this stuff to get to the point where I can also use it in my up and coming cannon and right now I'm not getting it to lift a 1" can more than 20 ft. sounds more of a fft than a f.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Sparx88

[MrB]

If I cook it in water but not let it boil, just bring to a simmer then set aside and let cool. Then add a small amount of alcohol and stir it up good, then filter through some cotton or coffee filter and lightly squeeze out the excess liquid.

 

Your dissolving KNO3 in hot water, and then draining some of it... Why?

B!

[Carbon796]

When you say your milling the individual chems. What kind of mill are you using ? Also if your trying to make good BP for lift, why are you not using the standard 75:15:10 formula ?

[Sparx88]

MrB. I don't know, it's part of a recipe/method. Your supposed to let it sit and cool to room temp and at that point there is no standing water left, the you add the alcohol and mix it in. Then squeeze out the excess alcohol to speed up drying. It did'nt make a lot of sense to me either but I figured whoever wrote it must know more than me since I just recently started making BP. I'm still learning. Maybe skip that step and go right to drying it?

 

Carbon, same thing, part of the same recipe. Looks like most it is not working so well. May just as well ditch the whole process and try the standard mix.

 

Does the sulfur really slow the powder down that much? I thought it was supposed to speed it up a bit because it lowers the ignition temp. And does'nt the sulfur have a binder effect as well? I don't want to just make good BP I want to understand it inside and out and I get the feeling that I will by the time I get it right lol. I'm just excited, it's like a kid in the candy store. You want to eat em all but have to go one by one or your teeth will rot and you'll get sick and never want to eat candy again.

 

So 75/15/10 ok I'm on it. and no squeezing.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Sparx88

[MrB]

MrB. I don't know, it's part of a recipe/method. It did'nt make a lot of sense to me either but I figured whoever wrote it must know more than me since I just recently started making BP. I'm still learning. Maybe skip that step and go right to drying it?

 

From your description it sounds like a FUBAR version of the "CIA method" to make BP. Here you make a over-saturated hot solution of the KNO3, mix it with the coal & sulfur, and chill it by adding cold acetone / ethanol / Isopropyl Aclohol and your relying on the temperature drop to make "most" of the KNO3 still in solution to crystallize, and the liquid you can squeeze out of it, isn't that rich in KNO3 anymore. Even in the best scenario, "the CIA method" makes a somewhat inferior powder compared to ball-milling it all for a couple of hours with a none-sparking media. Wetting and then drying isn't normal practice, just omit it all together, invest in a milling jar and lead media, and use this specifically for BP milling.

B!

[Sparx88]

I have ball mill and have a new one on the way. I have been milling each seperate before mixing. So after mixing, how do I granulate if I don't wet it? Or is granulation really needed? I know it is as far as breaks, mcrh.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Sparx88

[Jonathan]

Why not just dump the three chemicals in a ball mill and have at it for 3-4 hours? Doing this produces blindingly fast B.P. for me if I follow the 75:15:10 formulation. Usually I granulate using either red gum + water/alcohol or dextrin + water.

[MrB]

I have ball mill and have a new one on the way. I have been milling each seperate before mixing. So after mixing, how do I granulate if I don't wet it? Or is granulation really needed? I know it is as far as breaks, mcrh.

 

For the purpose of creating granuals, after you have a working BP, you can add a binder, dextrin, and make it slightly damp, and push it through the mesh you've been using. (For this, you want a thick barely claylike texture. only as much water as you absolutely have to add. More just means you wait longer for it to dry.) You can make granuals without a binder, but they don't hold up that well unless you use a good press. You can dry press it to pucks, and break them up for a more dense granual. Either way your not discarding any of the KNO3.

 

Granuals can be needed, as an example, for lift. It's pretty much meant to slow things down, while still using a good fast product, to save resources. Lightning fast BP simply blows up the shell on top of it, rather then launching it out the tube... The gaps provide a way for the hot gases to pass through, and light all the powder quickly, but then only the surface of it burns, slowing down the rate of expanding gas production.

 

Why not just dump the three chemicals in a ball mill and have at it for 3-4 hours?

 

That would be the preferred method. But only if you have a non-sparking milling media of course.

B!

[Sparx88]

MrB and Jonathan ty. I was over complicating things. There must be dozens of bp mthods and I was peicing a couple together it seems and made things more, um, more work than was needed.

 

My frustration has subsided to a level where I can once again find solice and comfort in my path to enlightenment. Painting the sky with strokes of vibrant anticipation and freedom. From spark to spark, the chain reaction of beauty that can ignite the imaginations and inspirations of young and old alike.

[MrB]

Poetic.

Crap, but poetic crap. I can at best produce crap, so i applaud your effort. You beat me hands down.

 

The basics of making BP is, sadly, something that everyone is just assumed "to know" so there isn't as much talk about it as there could be.

PyroGuide had a Wiki style of collected information that had a great page on "Black Powder Manufacture" but for the time being the darn thing is offline.

The whole thing is available in some offline package, if you can find it. Or, PM me a email, and i'll send you the tiny version that lacks a lot content, but tries to show them off by heading over to the way-back machine... The specific page on BP, and how it can be made is here.

 

To be honest, i think the most content is available "over there" on the wayback machine, but it's painful to use, being as slow as it is. Also, as any Internet source, it shouldn't be taken as the word of God, (Unless it's from me, nothing on Internet is "words from God", and even i have my bad days.) use what good sense your upbringing left you with, and try to survive your experiments. My upbringing sure didn't leave me much in the way of survival odds, but i'm still here. Were all happier if you can say the same in 25 years. Yeah, thats about how long i've spent on fireworks, and explosives. Still got all my fingers, even if a couple of them are hanging of my necklace...

It's a joke. But be careful. I can joke about it. I still GOT my fingers. A mate of mine doesn't joke about losing his head. And that was a stupid accident with a commercial product. This shit IS dangerous. Treat it that way.

 

Now that i've tried my best to scare you a little. If you spent 3 years trying your hand at "doing it your self", and couldn't get workable BP, do your self a favor. Start asking more questions. Stupid questions are a lot safer then stupid mistakes. If someone goes of ranting at you (Like i do just now) it's more then likely an attempt to try and safe your life. Don't let it scare you away from asking questions. And never be in a hurry. Pretty much any question, even really stupid ones, get answers, i know, i've asked them. It might take a while, but thats just coz nobody wants to give a bad answer that gets you killed. So people respond when they have more time on their hands. Oh, and, don't ask about high explosives. A few of us know some, some knows a lot. Some might be willing to share, in an effort to save your life, but most wont share at all, and it's all just so kewl bombers don't end up blowing them self to bits, and having "our" site in their web-browser as they do it. HE has no place in fireworks anyway, not asking about it wont cramp your paintings.

B!

[Sparx88]

That was nice of you. ty

 

I actually just started making BP about a week before joining here, it was'nt until about 3 years ago that I started trying to make my own fireworks. I was always buying cakes and the like. Sometimes taking apart certain items to make another and experimenting that way. Now that I'm learning to build em from the bottom up, and to afford it, some things have to be made by hand if I want to continue in this. . I was always using goex and it's a 7 hour drive round trip to buy it. And at 16 a lb. I am very carefull and I have been bit once when I was 15 playing around with a smallish firecracker and had it go off just as I let go. 3 fingers went numb for a couple hours and I never to this day tried that stunt again lol. Flash is kinda old hat. But it still gives me the willy's. I have always believed in that saying that once you start not being scared, thats when you'll get bit. I'm still only building 2" shells and cans. I just started copying festival balls back in those days. Now, I have a lot of articles, tech etc walkthroughs, videos anything I come across thats good pyro info I grab it up. The least I can do is promise to not abuse or screw with good advice. And since joining here I learned quite a bit and am thankfull for everyones help. I have given up on other things because things just did'nt get any better but this is one of those things that I think about all the time. I would love to do this for a living, work for company making and setting up, traveling all that is a dream of mine since a kid. I'm 40 years old now. It's been a looong dream. I would quit my work as a crane operator/sign mechanic of 15 years to do this full time if it could pay the bills. Oh, and don't worry about the HE thing, I'm not really interested in that sort of thing. Not for me. Once this cannon I'm starting to build is done, it will provide all the happy booms I would need