Two Suspected Burglars Killed When Blow Torch Ignites Fireworks In Safe

[leedrill]

im not saying stealing is the same as murder but i meant i had very few possessions from my farther to remember him by and they took the most important thing of mine in the whole house to me it felt honestly like my farther died all over again losing the only real physical tie i had left to him other than memories

i know what you mean but to have that happen makes me think differently on this topic yes i was no saint when i was young but stealing some beers and things of no real value at the time they could of stolen my identity, wallet, all the my money in my bank, my car my bikes, ect ect, i would have given them everything i owned to keep that one thing ill never get back or be able to buy again

and the point being they are usually they are the things in safes

a stupid example is the movie richy rich the stupid guy in the movie wanted to get in their vault to take all their money when he got in there it was just bowling trophies and sentimental possisions i.e. unless you are a drug dealer you keep your cash in a bank and everything else is insured but the sentimental items that have no real value other then to the owner are usually the things locked up that most of us would be wiling to give our lives for

and the thieves are obviously willing to give their lives for in hopes of a free meal ticket there are plenty of places to rob that benifet the community rather than stealing from someones home i mean go steal from a school they are insured and government funded {if a public school } then steal all the old computers and tvs so they get reimbursed and can buy new things for the school there is plenty of community friendly crimes but stealing from others who are in the same struggle punishment is well deserved even if it is self acting justice

[hindsight]

 

In this situation I must respectfully disagree with a large part APC community. Mikeee, I am sorry for your loss, but I hardly see breaking into a safe as being even remotely similar to killing your family members. These people were crooks, but that does not imply that they were murderers. Probably some stupid kids that made a poor decision as I’m sure we all have. I know that I was a troublesome teenager. Does that make me a bad person? I don’t think it does, and it certainly doesn't say anything about my parents. I guess this is just a hot-button for me. I don't take death lightly.

 

First off, I'd like to commend you on your moral courage in going against the tide here. Also, your compassion is an admirable trait. But as you see from leedrill's comment's we need to have compasion for the victims of criminals.

 

Secondly, It is not uncommon for a burglar to resort to deadly force when caught in the action of their crime.

 

Thirdly, though these criminals are very young by my standards, they are adults, not teenagers. (The fact that they carried an oxyacetylene torch with them implies a degree of planning, maybe even professionalism).

 

Fourthly, there is an absence of the sense of responsibility pervasive throughout modern culture. While we cannot completely control what our children do, we have the responsibility of raising them up in the way they should go. Sure, we've all made bad decisions in our youth, but if we don't fear the consequences we will likely repeat the bad actions.

 

 

 

Fifth, Mikeee and leedrill are nothing alike. Leedrill is a reasonably sensitive individual and Mikeee is, well....entertaining.

Edited October 28, 2013 by hindsight

[Bobosan]

When you were young and your heart was an open book
You used to say live and let live
(You know you did, you know you did, you know you did)
But if this ever changing world in which we live in
Makes you give in and cry.....

......Say live and let die

 

- Paul McCartney

 

Edited October 28, 2013 by Bobosan

[leedrill]

live and LET DIE indeed

[mikeee]

Someone wants to break and enter into my home will have a bullet planted squarely where it belongs.

Anyone willing to cross that line needs to be prepared to suffer the consequences.

That is our biggest problem in our society, no-one is held accountable for their actions anymore.

Politicians, Corporate Banks, Insurance Companies, Crooks, Rapists, Murders, they all get a slap on the wrist.

And you wonder why our society is all screwed up, most of these criminal punks would not hesitate to cap your ass.

We live in a different time, most of these wanna be gang bangers will kill for c-note and not blink an eye.

When someone breaks into your home and rapes or kills your wife or children, I am sure you will understand

that they had a hard time growing up and you just need to give them a second chance.

Those two ass clowns that got killed, that was the best thing that ever happened in their sorry lives.

They never have to worry about holding a job or paying taxes or being accountable to anyone ever again.

And they don't have to sign up for Obamacare. :-)

[BurritoBandito]

I've said my piece and am not looking for an argument. On that note, I'm not going to bother with trying to justify my position on the matter any further. You are entitled to your opinions as much as I am my own.

[marks265]

Someone wants to break and enter into my home will have a bullet planted squarely where it belongs.

Anyone willing to cross that line needs to be prepared to suffer the consequences.

That is our biggest problem in our society, no-one is held accountable for their actions anymore.

Politicians, Corporate Banks, Insurance Companies, Crooks, Rapists, Murders, they all get a slap on the wrist.

And you wonder why our society is all screwed up, most of these criminal punks would not hesitate to cap your ass.

We live in a different time, most of these wanna be gang bangers will kill for c-note and not blink an eye.

When someone breaks into your home and rapes or kills your wife or children, I am sure you will understand

that they had a hard time growing up and you just need to give them a second chance.

Those two ass clowns that got killed, that was the best thing that ever happened in their sorry lives.

They never have to worry about holding a job or paying taxes or being accountable to anyone ever again.

And they don't have to sign up for Obamacare. :-)

 

Yea, what he said!

[dynomike1]

Let me catch you coming out of my house, i bet you won't tell anyone what happened. The last one would be glad to tell you if he could.

[NeuroticNurse]

Wow, this degenerated quickly... so I'm going to add fuel to the fire and chip in.

Hats off to you BuritoBandito, you knew you had an unpopular view and yet you stuck with it and defended it. Cant say I entirely agree with you, but its amazing to see what lack of empathy some people have, and what lengths some people think that their own justice should extend.

[hindsight]

Bravo, Nurse. I wondered when you'd show up and pour some fuel on the fire. Burrito Bandito and I have had some very lengthy discussions on the matter, and while we come from some very different viewpoints, it's agreed that there do seem to be some pretty harsh attitudes expressed in this thread.

 

Indignation over the injustices prevalent in the world is a good thing and self-defense is certainly acceptable--but it's not something to be relished, just done out of necessity. Taking of life can be necessary but has to be done with some sensitivity for the sacred nature of life.

 

Welcome back from the shadows, Neurotic Nurse. Wherever you are, there's sure to be some excitement.

[BurritoBandito]

Thank you both NeuroticNurse and Hindsight. Hindsight I have enjoyed our conversations. To everyone else you should get to know Hindsight. He is very intelligent and respectful. I consider him a to be a pretty awesome person.

[mikeee]

Indignation over the injustices prevalent in the world is a good thing and self-defense is certainly acceptable--but it's not something to be relished, just done out of necessity. Taking of life can be necessary but has to be done with some sensitivity for the sacred nature of life.

 

A moment of silence for these two individuals that lost their lives while breaking and entering to steal from someone.

Both of these individulas took their own lives by the illegal actions they undertook to break the law.

If life is so sacred why did these two individuals go out of their way to abuse someone else's life?

This is starting to sound like a commercial to help the homeless puppies and kittens of the world.

When someone dies society always has to blame someone, seems to me they did everything themselves to create this outcome.

 

Empathy is the capacity to recognize emotions that are being experienced by another sentient or fictional being.

Neither of these two individuals showed any empathy or compassion towards the person they were stealing from.

 

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

[hindsight]

There is no excusing the actions of the criminals, the blame lies squarely on themselves for their own death, just as I said before (I'm sure you read my earlier post). They reaped as they sowed.

But they are not kittens or puppies. Nor were they nonsentient. While justice is good, I am not dancing on their graves, either.

 

The thing that is a bit disconcerting, is the apparent anticipated glee over despatching an imagined transgressor.

 

God is not mocked, and as we sow, so shall we reap. "...Because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful."

 

For all have sinned and fallen short. "Forgive me my transgressions as I have forgiven those who have transgressed against me." Turn to him the other cheek also.

Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, it is Mine to repay. There are as many references to mercy as there are to justice.

 

Mercy and justice have to be balanced, and it's a difficult task.

Edited November 3, 2013 by hindsight

[BurritoBandito]

Mikeee, many people would say the same of our hobby. We endanger ourselves everytime we partake in pyrotechnic activities, but it is still tragic when things go awry. It would be hateful to say that a pyro got what they had coming to them if they lost their life pursuing the interest. There are "roadsigns" that warn us of the inherent risks involved, yet we continue. It could even be argued that we put others in danger every time we light a fuse or ematch. Things can go bad very quickly.

[mikeee]

This guy was trying to steal copper cables that were still energized.

This happens quite often in our country with the price of copper being high right now.

Who do we blame for these people that die from trying to steal these cables while they are energized.

There are signs that say Danger High Voltage and Do Not Enter.

Perhaps the Utility Companies can shut all of the power off on the power grid.

 

 

 

A person shoots themselves.

Do we blame the company the makes the bullets or the company that makes the revolver?

 

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/car_crash.jpg

 

Someone steals and drives a car beyound the safe speed limit and crashes and dies.

Do we blame the state for not having roads that you can drive on at excessive speeds?

Do we blame the person who owned the fast car?

Do we blame the car manufacturer?

 

Incidents like these happen every day in this country.

When a person reaches the legal age of being an adult, they take on the responsibility of behaving like one.

When these individuals decide to operate outside the laws they run the risk of bad things happening.

Edited November 7, 2013 by TheSidewinder

[hindsight]

Agreed, that when people ignore the law, signs, warnings, etc., and bad things happen to them, then the blame is on the violator. You cannot regulate everything, because people will still find a way to wreak havoc on themselves and/or others. it's also unfair to restrict responsible people because someone abuses something useful.

 

Let's just not revel in the consequences.

[BurritoBandito]

Mikeee I think you're missing the point. No one is arguing that these individuals are not responsible for their own deaths. That is a given. The issue is that you make a mockery of the harsh reality that they have faced. It does not matter that they are responsible or even that they were doing something stupid. It is (debatably) "stupid" for an amateur pyro to make explosives. If one of your good friends blew themselves up would you be posting pictures of his remains here on this forum? Would you say That ass clown that got killed, that was the best thing that ever happened in his sorry life"? Or would you say "It is a tragedy that he made a mistake which cost him his life."?

 

For all you know the parents of these boys are members of APC reading all of the incredibly disrespectful things you are saying about their children. Do their parents deserve to have to deal with the deaths? Absolutely not. It is a sad fact that they must, and is even sadder that they almost certainly have since encountered people with your point of view, who feel it necessary to say things like "The apple does not fall far from the tree". I don't expect you to agree with me, but I do ask that you show some respect. Remember, if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.

[mikeee]

I have very little respect for criminals, when they let the next round of convicts out on parole I will be sure to send them

your way so you can help them out. And they can help themselves out to whatever you have.

There have been several people posting on this topic that seem to go out of their way to make excuses for someone

commiting a crime. They must relate to these individuals in more ways then one.

That is why our society is so screwed up no-one values the difference between right and wrong.

When this post was first started some people where trying to blame the person who owned the locked safe inside a locked building

for storing volatile materials inside the safe. Where was the owner suppose to store the materials?

And because these two individuals died they needed to blame someone else for the deaths.

If your related to these two individuals you should man up and say something instead of trying to blame another person

for the actions of these two individuals.

So if these two individuals managed to steal the chemicals from the safe and made large scale salutes that ended up killing

one of your family members I am sure you would be talking out the other side of your bleeding heart.

They committed the crime and they paid the price, stop trying to blame someone else for the outcome.

[BurritoBandito]

From your last post I would say that you have "very little respect" for anyone who does not agree with you. I will not get into a mudslinging match with you here on the forum. If you want to talk trash then send me a PM and keep it off the thread.

[hindsight]

Okay, so everybody disagrees. Now can somebody clean up the mess on Post#40.

Since this discussion has been focused on adults being responsible, how about somebody be sensitive to the fact that there are people that view this site who are not adults.

It reflects badly on the posters and admins.

[BurritoBandito]

I completely agree.

[pyrokid]

Bandito I am confused about why you would go to such lengths to provide counterarguments to people mocking the two robbers.

 

There are plenty of people in the world who actually deserve sympathy. Two fellows who died while robbing an innocent person don't rank too highly on that list.

Edited November 5, 2013 by pyrokid

[BurritoBandito]

I think hindsight put it beat when he said:

Agreed, that when people ignore the law, signs, warnings, etc., and bad things happen to them, then the blame is on the violator. You cannot regulate everything, because people will still find a way to wreak havoc on themselves and/or others. it's also unfair to restrict responsible people because someone abuses something useful.

 

Let's just not revel in the consequences.

I fully agree that the blame is on the burglars, but strongly disagree with the idea that they got what they deserved. Their crime was punishable by jail, not death, and it is disgraceful to see the lack of sympathy. Pair the violent and buligerant comments with the ones highlighting the problems with society and you have painted a very hypocritical picture. I'm not saying that the criminals were justified in stealing, just that it is a sad state of affairs when people mock the dead. Those boys have more than paid the price for their crimes already. Why ridicule them and disrespect their grieving family? Also, some of the posts were just outright rude and distasteful. Unless you knew these guys motives reserve your judgements. We have all made poor choices at one point or another.

[hindsight]

Even if any one has any question about what they deserved, they got death. While we need to be discerning in meting out justice, and judicial systems are devised for that, I'd agree that we need to be careful about judging someone's heart (motives). I don't know any man on this earth worthy of that task.

[leedrill]

very well put hind sight some whom are religious might think of one who is fit to do so im more saying they have commandments that im sure relate to not doing what these two did . im no atheist but my views are more related to karma what goes around comes around .

in turn anyone can have an opinion and pass judgement on these two mens actions or be bias to others opinions .

i can say if i was one of these two men and could look back on what i did in the afterlife i would say i deserved it .

i think that is where my opinion and i assume others opinions start off with the thought of they got what they deserve .

in saying if i did do something in the nature of this storey i can assure you id rather be punished with a jail sentence than death but if death is what i got i feel that is the risk i would be taking.

 

im not saying that :

 

A. they should have gotten a death sentence or that the death penalty should ever be enforced in any country or state

B. that the guy should not have had the safe labelled better in order for this to never happen

 

but i am saying if what the guy had in the safe was stored legally and was obviously not meant to be tampered with.

these two should have gone and jumped off a cliff on their friday night instead of this it would of had a similar ending with the guy still having his safe and goods inside

 

and can i please mention because no one else has

 

they might have died 'BUT THEY GOT IT OPEN' i feel these to did a good job and proved their worth hahahaha