Does Sodium metal react with Acetone?

[HalfLife2Luver]

I wana be sure it doesnt befor i spend 8$

[Mumbles]

Perhaps you should tell us why you ask. If you're planning to store sodium under acetone, don't.

 

Pure Sodium and pure acetone don't react to my knowledge. However, if there is any water at all in the acetone they will react. One molecule of water will cause a slow chain reaction over a period of time. If there is any hydroxide or oxide contamination, a similar reaction will occur.

[HalfLife2Luver]

I plan to try to make sodium.

 

Dissolve salt into liquid,run current.Have sodium slowy form

 

I need a solvent or liquid that doesnt react with Na.I tried acetone today and it slowly fized

[al93535]

You cannot make sodium metal that way, all you will get is Oxygen and Hydrogen.You have to have molten salt and perform electrolysis to get Na.

[HalfLife2Luver]

Thats not what im saying.Im saying if you have a liquid that doesnt react with sodium,is conductive and can have salt disolved into it.You will get sodium and one of the electodes and chlorine on other.

[pa_pyro]

I think most of this is covered in the alkali metal thread. I don't think NaCl will dissolve in *anhydrous* acetone. If yours did it might of been because of water in the acetone, which would obviously ruin what little sodium it would create.

[Picric acid DOES taste bitter!]

I have had similar thoughts about sodium production, and i would love to get my hands on some nitromethane, as it seems qiute stable by itself and is still polar enough to dissolve the NaCl...

 

If the solubility is too low, then you might try to increase the voltage of your power supply. I am going to try to full-wave rectify the AC straight out of the mains to get 115 v DC. using some diodes... sure will be interesting.

[tentacles]

You'll end up with quite a lot more than 115V DC... 115V mains is RMS, as dc you will have a P-P voltage. More like 163V.

[Arthur]

Search! Search Wikipedia for both Sodium and Downs Cell. Sodium does not plate oud from solutions but it does electrorefine from fused sodium chloride or mixes. Yes at about 750c!

 

Clearly you are at the edge of your competence doing electrolyisi with your suggestion of rectifying mains.

Electrolysis usually needs 5 - 15 volts at large amperages 10 - 100 in a bucket size cell and easily 10,000 amps in plating cells for car parts and other big things.

 

Power control is important, also while plating the place will be wet so low volts isolated from the mains is very important. If you intend to do electro chemistry look for a PSU that will supply a steady DC and allow you to control the voltage from 5 - 15 and be aboe to supply 15 amps or more., isolated from the mains supply. -That means a good transformer!

 

I had a friend running a perc cell and supplying 80 amps 24/7 without the PSU needing cooling down.

[crazyboy25]

Electrolysis of molten NaOH is far more practical.Besides to store sodium go to the pharmacy they sell a big bottle of 99% mineral oil as a laxative.

[Picric acid DOES taste bitter!]

The thing is, with increased volts you can have less salt dissolved in an solution and still have the cell work, so if you (like me) are impatient and wants high purity of yout of your electrolysis witout having to wait a week or two, you use less salt in the same ammount of solvent to yield more product and less crude salt.

 

Specificaly i was referring to the chlorate/perchlorate cells, since ive tried them for over two days with neglegable results since there still is too much damn salt to separate anything useful.

 

Do you undrestand my way of thought?

[asilentbob]

You seem to think a lot and research little.

 

https://sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=9797

[Picric acid DOES taste bitter!]

And that is a bad thing? Is it better to just take peoples word for it and not think and experiment on your own?

 

Anyway...the problem with this type of cell (in your attatched link)is that you need ALOT of time and money to construct it and tune it to production. In my case of *very* limited time and money for such an elaborate (and rather large) design, it simply isnt an option. If a proper medium is obtained i believe that would be much simpler and faster (again, i am impatient by nature) if not as efficient.

 

The whole debate here is about sodium production from salt via a medium, something your attatched file doesent cover. So... Once again, any ideas? My proposition is nitromethane. Will that react to sodium? I believe it does dissolve the salt...

[Boomer]

Would not surprise me if it reacted explosively. Even the hydroxide forms explosive salts with nitromethane. Incompatible with bases (though it is mixed with *some* in PLX, I won't say more here).

 

Thought about anhydrous DMF or DMSO?

[Picric acid DOES taste bitter!]

I know about NaOH and nitromehane, but sodium is a metal, not a base. I came up with th idea of NM since it is polar to dissolve the salt, unlike petroleum-based compounds used to store sodium in while still being part petroleum-based.

 

I just dont see the sodium stripping hydrogen and oxygen fron the NM spontaneously. The reson NM is so unheard of could be the limited use in industrial scale (the risk and consequence in case of an explosion). I also know about PLX so...

[asilentbob]

That cell may be very developed, but you could easily simplify it. So it is quite applicable.

 

Have you read the threads at SMDB on alkali metal production? Its no secret that research put in often correlates with product got out.

 

http://www.destructve.com/bromicacid/experiments/may2004.php

http://www.destructve.com/bromicacid/exper.../august2004.php

http://www.destructve.com/bromicacid/exper...october2004.php

 

I would NOT use nitromethane... a hint of moisture and you would be fucked.

[Picric acid DOES taste bitter!]

Hehe...Thats what i mean by consequence and industrial scale...

 

Im talking about no more than 50ml. of NM in a tiny cell, just for the sake of proving the theory. Its not exactly meant as an sodium-factory. And, of course, i wont be anywhere near the thing when im electrolysing (wich you only can do with DC, contrary to one of your links )

[asilentbob]

When he was using AC he was trying to fuse NaNO3 and Fe2O3... The electricity just being a convienient way to heat it up... He was NOT going for sodium, he was going for ferrates... like permanganates, but IIRC stronger.

 

Really... Now... Boomer and I strongly dislike the idea of nitromethane anywhere near sodium... How many more people will it take to convince you to shift to something else like DMSO?

 

http://www.sciencemadness.org/library/book...c_compounds.pdf

http://www.sciencemadness.org/library/book...lectrolysis.pdf

 

You might not find anything there directly about sodium, but you might find some other solvents that could work.

 

Have you read the SMDB threads?

 

Edit:

And really this is on the verge of belonging in the HE section.

[Swany]

You may be stupidly brave, Picric acid. While claiming to be impatient, you neglect to build upon the centuries of successful work before you and hesitate to yield to the advice of seasoned veterens. Mumbles, myself, and other members who work in research settings can attest to the priceless value of prior work and references to our own research.

 

Sodium metal is more active than you give it credit to be. The formed chlorine will do interesting things, the electric potential may cause interesting side reactions, and all of the contaminants (which are there) will make for an interesting soup of products whos decomposition products are strongly favored by entropy and enthalpy. The extra energy will be around in your setup to perpetuate a decomposition that could prove the stupidly brave hypothesis.

 

There are old chemists, and there are bold chemists; but there are no old, bold chemists.

 

Although, I do admit that I am interested to see if your idea works.

[Picric acid DOES taste bitter!]

Ive finally read up on those links you guys sent me(electrochemistry of organic compounds, took quite some time), and you've convinced me. Ill not try a real life-experiment. But, as Swany remarks, im still curious weather it would work...