Ammonium Perchlorate Substitute

[BarbJebez]

I've been devouring the treasure trove of info here for about 2 months. This past weekend, I fired off my first homemade charcoal comp gerb (4oz tube, 10g of comp). Probably wouldn't impress most of you here but tube and tooling were homemade and chemicals were repurposed garden supplies and bottom of the bag lump charcoal dust all milled in a coffee grinder (not together of course) so I was as giddy as a schoolboy that it came out as good as it did.

 

I know I've still got a ways to go in my pyrotechnical journey but I've been looking into gerbs since they are neighbor friendly, relatively safe, and legal to set off in my state without additional permits. I ran across one of Skylighter's articles for colored gerbs and thought they would be a wonderful next step.

 

The oxidizers for the red (strontium nitrate) and green (barium nitrate) comps are pretty easy to come by but I'm having trouble finding a source for the ammonium perchlorate listed for the blue comp. The normal supply channels (Skylighter, PyroChemSource, Rolling Thunder/American Pyro, etc.) all seem to be out of stock. My question then is, given the following list of chems in the comp (don't want to give away Skylighter's article completely):

• Ammonium perchlorate
  
• Copper Oxide, Black
  
• Parlon
  
• Aluminum, 325-mesh
  
• Hexamine
  
• Charcoal
  

is there another oxidizer that I can substitute in for the AP? As I have no background in chemistry (just now figuring out which chems are oxidizer, fuel, colorant, additive), I don't want to go changing things willy-nilly hoping they work. That's just stupid.

 

Barring that, does anyone know where I can get some? I've read that it can be made at home but my wife barely tolerates the idea of a pyro work area - a chem lab would be out of the question. I have found one source that runs $13USD for 8oz + shipping but that took 2 days of googling to find.

 

I've looked through the compositions forum here for other possible blue comps but the majority of them also list AP as their oxizider so I'm guessing that it's the best for the job. This leads me to think either there's not much blue fireworks being made out there or else ya'll got a secret supplier that I'm not coming up with.

 

At any rate, I appreciate any and all assistance provided.

[nater]

AP makes great blues, which is why so many blue formulas use it. Firefox sells AP in different mesh sizes. AP is the primary oxidizer used in the HPR world, so if you search for the "research" rocketry suppliers, you can find AP.

 

Another option you could try, is pressing different blue star comps as a gerb. By itself you will get a flame which burns like a lance, but you could try to add some coarse charcoal or metals to get the sparks you want. I have done this with red, but not blue.

[BarbJebez]

nater - Thanks for the reply. I remember now running across Firefox early in my perusal of suppliers but guess they slipped my mind due to all their wonky ordering rules that no one else seems to have.

 

Yeah, I checked the blue star comps also when doing my research. A few used potassium perchlorate but most listed AP. Once I'm comfortable with the fuel comps I plan to add spark producers such as Ti in the blues and greens and either charcoal or iron in the reds.

[burningRNX]

Why using an AP blue with Sparks? The Sparks hide the washed out blue perfectly, reducing cost. Edited September 6, 2013 by burningRNX

[Shadowcat1969]

Here's a blue that doesn't use AP. I haven't used it yet, so I don't know how good it is.

 

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/45-shimizu-blue-%231/

[Col]

Another option is to use KP blue microstars embedded in the grain. With a decently long tube you can have seperate layers of microstars and spark producing metals to prevent washing out the colour.

[Mumbles]

Most of the blue gerbs I've seen are AP based. With stars though, you might find more AP formulas, but in general KP based stars are more popular. It's lower in cost, and has much fewer incompatibilities and handling concerns.

[BarbJebez]

Most of the blue gerbs I've seen are AP based. With stars though, you might find more AP formulas, but in general KP based stars are more popular. It's lower in cost, and has much fewer incompatibilities and handling concerns.

...as I am discovering reading through info I come across.

 

Well, like any good chef, I'm starting out by following established recipes to get comfortable with the various processes and ingredients. As my comprehension grows, I'm sure I'll be ready to expand into experimenting with varying ratios and even chemicals eventually.

[FlaMtnBkr]

There are lots of AP blues but there are also lots of chlorate blues. There are lots of chlorate colors in general. Both oxidizers have incompatibilities including each other. So if you want to use one you basically need to pick one and stick with it and not cross contaminate your shop. That or do what most people do and stick with perchlorate and have a safer shop but not quite as brilliant colors.

 

AP is probably going to just continue to become harder and more expensive to find. I would probably stick with perchlorate and then as you get more comfortable move on to chlorate.

[Jonathan]

I find AP works well with metal fuels; not as well with hydrocarbon fuels. KClO4 works well with both types of fuels. Like AP, KClO4 absorbs little moisture from the air when stored in an airtight container, even without a dessicant bag. I'm not into colors, so no comment there.

[Peret]

...pick one and stick with it and not cross contaminate your shop...

Especially don't handle AP and potassium chlorate in the same room. They are famously incompatible - they will switch ions and create ammonium chlorate, which is dangerously unstable and explosive.

 

There are some respectable perchlorate blues. I found the ones using copper oxide to be better than other copper salts like oxychloride. Paris Green makes nice blues if you can get it, but if you do, be suspicious of anyone in your household offering you pea soup.