Red Gum Instead of Dextrin

[LambentPyro]

Is it possible to replace the dextrin in glitter comps like D1 and Yankies? I find that I get much more consistently sized stars when rolling with Red Gum as the binder instead of Dextrin, however Dextrin rolls faster, I don't mind taking the extra time to make a good batch.

 

I use 70% Isopropanol with a few grams of BA in Al exclusive comps.

[mabuse00]

In my opinion Red Gum is inferior to dextrine as a binder. It also burns more eagerly than dextrine and that difference will have an effect on your glitter - this must be tried.

Yankies might not strobe but burn at once.

 

I recommend Polyvinylbutyral. Use 1-3% and bind with >95% isopropanol.

No more bad smell no matter how wet you make them, quick drying and rock hard stars.

[LambentPyro]

Where can I get something like that?

 

I'll have to give it a go.

 

Also, would there be any side reactions that this could make things become a problem?

Edited September 2, 2013 by LambentPyrotechnics

[schroedinger]

Depending on where you are from, it can be easy to source or impossible, but the stuff mabuse talks about it typicaly sold by art suppliers, (look for one which also sells chemicals).

[Mumbles]

Do you guys have a particular grade you use? Like all polymers and plastics, saying "PVB" could mean any of about a hundred different products all with different polymer blends and properties. I seem to recall Mowital being used, but there is always a grade afterwards. Moxichem sells B30, a spanish supplier seems to sell B60. Do you know if the grade even matters?

[mabuse00]

Do you guys have a particular grade you use?

I only know B30 and B60. I guess other versions might work for us too. That needs to be tried...

The main difference is the viscosity (in solution). 60 has a higher viscosity. I havent found figures about solubility ratios.

 

 

Also, would there be any side reactions that this could make things become a problem?

At least not to my knowledge.

I vaguely rememeber a statement about B30 seeming to be incompatible with hexamine, what does not apply to B60.

Therefore B60 is to be prefered.

 

 

I only do very small projects so the high price compared to dextrine does not play a big role for me. You can cut and roll as good as with dextrine. Only when pumping I found most stars getting a little sticky, thus hampering the pumping process.

Another thing to consider is that PVB slows most compositions down a little and makes them less ignitable compared with dextrine bound ones.

Edited September 2, 2013 by mabuse00

[psyco_1322]

The red gum will probably mess the effect up, and I think you would end up needing more red gum than dextrin to get the same hardness of star.

 

Maybe what you should do is roll the dextrin based formula slower, as you do with the red gum. Taking your time to roll stars is what makes them come out nice, rolling too fast will give bad results.

[chemtech89]

I've made D1 with 10% redgum instead of dextrin and an experiment. The glitter effect was there and the flashes had a slightly deeper orange color. However, the glitter effect was about 1/3 of what the dextrin version will produces. I would not make it again but it does work, just not well. I've found that dextrin does give a much better glitter or firefly effect compared to redgum or SGRS (not that they are related but they are the only binders I have used excluding parlon)... Check out my dextrin vs. SGRS thread, its mentioned in there. Edited September 4, 2013 by chemtech89