how to make sodium chlorate from electrolysis?

[MCtiaguinho]

Hi all, im new here and im from Portugal ;D.

 

I found a easy way to make sodium chlorate on youtube from electrolysis. i know that anode its stainless steel but cathode is made from graphite with copper to find that i need to know what to looking for, so the graphite i need to use is that? (image), because the youtuber uses one that its different.

 

video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wyb0mVAmq6I

ps: sorry my bad english im improving it.

 

Thank You

MCtiaguinho

Edited September 1, 2013 by MCtiaguinho

[taiwanluthiers]

Find Laserred on ebay, use the MMO anode and a titanium cathode, and you'll be able to make loads of sodium chlorate as long as you keep supplying it with salt... and the anode will last nearly forever. Edited September 1, 2013 by taiwanluthiers

[MCtiaguinho]

hi again,

Thank you to repply so fast but im portuguese and i never bought anything from ebay and i live in portugal so the shipping cost will be highter. I dont know what you mean with MMO and where i can find in physic store and for cathode i would like to buy the titanium cathode but where i can find it too?

 

edit: i saw what means mmo but dont know how to find it in Portugal and the titanium cathode can be anything made in titanium?

Thank You

Edited September 1, 2013 by MCtiaguinho

[Arthur]

Read the how to make (per)chlorate thread. All the info you need is there as all the processes for perc go via chlorate. Electrode material is critical so you will need to buy them. either on here from some people or from ebay. Sorry but the shipping will just be a fact of life, no-one ships for free.

[Arthur]

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/1629-making-potassium-per-chlorate/ will be heavy reading -its a big thread! But this contains all the knowledge and details you will need

[taiwanluthiers]

MMO is mixed metal oxide, it lasts nearly forever when used in a chlorate cell. Pay the shipping, the thing lasts nearly forever so you will only pay once. As for Titanium any grade 1 or grade 2 titanium will work. Try to avoid grade 5 if you can. Some Russian sellers may have grade 2 titanium plates...

[MCtiaguinho]

hi,

Thank all for fast reply, so the titanium the plate i think i can find easily with grade and for mmo i will search where in portugal but mmo is used for what?

and fire thank you for the topic i will read as soon i had some time

 

 

 

Thank you.

[schroedinger]

Don`t try to mess around with graphit, as it needs a very low ampere per surface area or it won`t last very long.

 

If you wan`t to use graphit go for the so called glass carbon (simetime glossy carbon). It will do the job quite god.

 

If you wan`t an easy way, do it like told before, MMO and Titan.

 

For the MMO look up you`re ebay, and spain, uk and german ebay. They will ship for propably 10€ over to you, the same goes for titan sheet. Look for 1,2 mm Grade 1 or 2 Titan (sometimes called pure titan). The will sell you enough for two anodes for around 10-15€, if it isn`t available look for 0,6 mm, but these won`t last as long as the thicker one and can`t take as much power.

[MCtiaguinho]

hi,

yes titanium rod i can find where easily the mmo i will search here or yes its a nice idea to buy in spain or german ebay, and like you said with this cell i can use a higher Ampere to get more.

to improve the efficiency i can put the cell in cold bath and use ph reducer. but why ph reducer improve the reaction?

titanium i can buy in a rod or a sheet right? and mmo same thing?

 

Thank you

[taiwanluthiers]

MMO comes in mesh, and I think they are used for pool chlorination...

[schroedinger]

You will get MMO in a mesh fashioned way and take Tatanium sheet istead of rod. So you`re anode will get used equally at every point, with a titanium rod you will get hoit spots, which are used stronger then other.

 

I just looked at ebay and found this offer, with sounds quite ok to me. Specially as you will get one (you willneed two) kathode with it (since it is a mesh titanium it will be quite usefull to make you`re own anodes)

[MCtiaguinho]

hi, like i said for titanium a buy a sheet with 2-3 inch grade 2 yep that i can get easy mmo i will search where or yeah i will buy in european ebay any links?

And for the cell any recommendation? temperature/ph ?

i know i can do it from bleach too, so anyone knows the ingredients i will need to do a smoke bomb? to test sodium?

Schroedinger you said i need to get 2 cathodes? why?

 

Thank you

[schroedinger]

You will need 2 cathodes, one for every side of the anode (or you would leave one side of the anode out of action).

 

Temperature should be running around 60°C and PH is god if it is around 7 (neutral) to sligtly basic.

 

Yes you could do it from bleach, but the croop you would get tend to be nothing.

 

For ebay just type in MMO Anode and do a little of research, you will find what you are looking for.

[MCtiaguinho]

hi, i know i get very little from bleach but i can get it free i dont wanna make a lot only some to make a smoke bomb to test it.

The titanium and mmo yes i will buy them and with the recommendations you gave me so i will make the cell,

so how can i purificate the chlorate from the bleach by crystallization i am right? and from the cell? (i know that cells make sodium hypochlorite)

 

How can i make smoke bomb?

and some black powder?

 

Thank You.

[schroedinger]

For everything you ask are tutorials in the tutorial section.

 

For Black Powder you need Pottasium nitrate, Sulfur and charcoal.

 

The Chlorate musst be changed over to pottasium chlorate and can be puryfied by recrystallisation. The Chlorate cell will produce hypochlorite and chlorate

[MCtiaguinho]

hi, i will search in tutorial section

 

but i can do powder without pottasium with chlorate right?

 

 

i understand the method

 

Thank you

 

edit: in tutorials i cannot find the smoke bomb drom chlorate (i found with sodium nitrate)

Edited September 6, 2013 by MCtiaguinho

[schroedinger]

May use the search, there are enough tutorial on chlorate, milk sugar and dye smokebombs.

 

No you can`t make black powder without pottasium nitrate. If you`re using chlorate you would get in trouble with the incompability towards sulfur. 'Without sulfur you get H3 nothing you wan`t to use on the level you`re working

[MCtiaguinho]

hi, hmmm i understand what you said and other types of powder?

 

and yes i will search better

but i have a question, today i bought some 5% bleach and i put on heat but in a few time i didnt see any cristals only some white thing on bleach so i leave for a moment and when i came back was just hard powder in 1 beaker and other more "fluffy" in other beaker, the fluffy seems to be more yellow (hard seems to be more white/blue) and have more crystals too.

 

What is that?

 

a photo: http://img593.images...3/2252/0nn5.jpg (hard)

 

 

Thank You.

 

ps: i will buy mmo from ebay so Thanks all who helped me.

Edited September 7, 2013 by MCtiaguinho

[taiwanluthiers]

You can just make potassium chlorate directly from potassium chloride. It works very well and the product immediately drops out of solution... all you would have to do is remove the crystals, add more potassium chloride, and top up the water level and keep going. Very convenient. However chlorate is a bit useless for me because of safety issue... would have been much better if I could turn them into perchlorate.

[MCtiaguinho]

hi, ty taiwan its what i was thought but i can make it too with the mmo/titanium cell right? and later turn to perchlorate.

 

 

 

 

ps: im my past question i have had mix (i dont know why) the 2 powders and i put some more bleach in heat and seems again to see some powder but was no crystals

where 2 photos

 

the powder in bleach: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/30/pxvy.jpg/

and the mix of the 2 powders: http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5774/k2d2.jpg

 

Thank you

[Arthur]

Bleach rarely contains more than 5% hypochlorite so the result of an inefficient reaction on that 5% would be tiny. NOT all bleaches contain hypochlorite so others would be useless. be careful that any fragrances and stabilisers and surfactants don't get in the way of a low yield reaction.

[MCtiaguinho]

hi,

my bleach says that had the hypoclorite and have 5% but i dont know what happen to form that hard powder in that photos

anyone knows why?

 

Thank you

 

edit: i wanna try chlorate first before buy the anode/cathode, i can make electrolysis from 2 stainless steal right?

4-5 days with a computer power supply and after purify ?

 

 

Thank you

Edited September 8, 2013 by MCtiaguinho

[MCtiaguinho]

hi,

I wanna make an stainless steel cell to test sodium clorate,

like i said i have a pc power supply (20 ampers 5 volts) i can use this concentration 100 g of NaCl and 200 mLs of water

how can i purify it? (i can filter the solution and crystallize with Distilled water ( i heard that works better) but in room ºc or cold bath? and like schroedinger said the best ºC os around 60 and ph its 7.

My last question is, how much time my anode/cathode can resist to corrosion?

 

Thank you.

[Mumbles]

You cannot use the concentration of 100g of sodium chloride in 200mL distilled water.

 

I really suggest looking up the (per)chlorate thread in the chemistry section. It'll be one of the top few threads. Read through it, and you'll find the answer to many of your questions.

[MCtiaguinho]

hi,

mumbles i have read that thread, and my concentration was wrong but like taiwan said its better and easier to make potassium clorate since i need potassium cloride, but for electrodes i can still use titanium and mmo right?

 

and for concentration i can use 40 grams for every 100 mLs

 

and about ºc and ph?

 

 

ps: i saw a lot of electrodes in that thread but i was a little confiused because the different opinions about the cell its why i dont know witch electrodes i must use.

 

Thank you.