Monster90ash Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Hi guys and girls. Im new to this site so wondering if there is someone out there with an amazing knowledge on flash compositions that can help me.So last night i was experimenting with my usual kno3 mgal flash and trying some new compositions. My usual mix being 60:40 mgal:kno3 +10% sulphur. This mix is ok and gives a nice report and is fairly safe to work with from what i understand. Next....decided to to try 70:30 +10% sulphur. (I should note i am not new to this scene and have been mixing my own compositions for a few years now) this was a 1 gram batch and i wish to god i recorded me mixing but who does that! Ok so just to smooth out the powder a little i stirred lightly in a mortar ( very lightly ) 30 seconds later there was a loud crack and flash! The mix self confined and pretty much blew my hand out the mortar! Now as i said i am not new to this and have been using this method for a very long time now. Could someone please enlighten me or share a story of similar fashion to this one? Thanks heapsAsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I think you will find you might not receive the warmest reception here. Basically everything you said makes it very clear you are not very experienced, and definitely do not have the respect or knowledge to be working with flash powder. What happened is that you were being stupid and are lucky you didn't get hurt worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster90ash Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Sorry mumbles how do you mean? I have worked with kno3 for a very long time and was more after help not abuse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Pyros generally discourage working with flash because they are sensitive, but beyond that if it goes off it can do a lot of damage. Flash are known to self confine even at half gram quantities and you don't really want to stir them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster90ash Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 I guess stirring is not really the right word. I was holding the mortar swishing it around to mix the flash, no friction apart from that of the grain against the ceramic of the mortar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karliWadt Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Grinding FP in a mortar is a really effective method of jettisoning unwanted limbs and digits. I was told in my earlier days that a method known as diapering is a "safe" method. That said without proper experience there really isn't a safe way and should be avoided full stop. Especially with the addition of sulphur as that can make it exponentially more sensitive. Someone correct me if im wrong but doesn't the self confiding quality come from something to do with deflegration speed and temperature superheating the air around it and making it temporarily confined with air pressure? I may be wrong but im sure i read that somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karliWadt Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Sorry didn't read that last post was busy typing when it posted. Still. Flash is dangerous and isn't a toy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster90ash Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 All good. I was just very suprised with the outcome. I have never had a boom or anything close to a crack working with kno3 unconfined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karliWadt Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 That's the thing with some flash compositions they're just so unpredictable. Have to remember that some of the even high ranking members of this site have been injured and sometimes seriously, its in the nature of this hobby and explosives/pyro don't care who you are. I had a little mishap with Nitrogentriiodide in my misguided youth. The dangers of sensitive compositions simply can't be overstated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster90ash Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Yes well I will definitely be giving this comp alot more respect. I have found with the kno3, that most of the ratios posted here there and everywhere will not produce a sufficient flash with the chemical I buy. I'm talking slower than BP. Maybe something to do with purity, however this leaves me with no option but to work with my own ratios to find what suits me. Thanks for the advice but Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karliWadt Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 KNO3 is a useful oxidiser really. Bit of a jack of all trades. Chlorates and perchlorates are obviously a better known oxidiser for FP. But they're far more sensitive and have a much higher deflegration speed and once again should be very much avoided. Out of curiosity what was the intended use of the flash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I know kno3 based flash is used for boosting shells because they burn slowly, but we use dark aluminum and not MgAl. I read somewhere that MgAl based flash can be unpredictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 KNO3 based flash can actually be more dangerous, especially with sulfur, because it has a lower ignition temperature than flash made with other oxidizers. As Mumbles mentioned, the fact you were mixing in a mortar and pestle shows you don't have the experience or respect to be mixing flash at all. The absolute last thing you want to do is introduce fiction and that is exactly how a M&P works, no matter how light of a touch you think you were using. Just thinking about scraping against flash powder should give you a panicked feeling and the fact you did it on purpose shows you don't have the necessary respect. Not trying to be mean, but you don't know enough or your built in respect for life and limb should have kicked in. You need to stop messing with flash ASAP, and stop using the internet as your source of info. Instead get some good pyro books and read read read. That or update your life insurance policy and maybe start recording your experiments so there will be video to help stop others from making similar mistakes. Since you probably won't make the investment into some good books, at a minimum search out every thread on safety that you can find, print them out, and read them every chance you get, especially before any 'experiments'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie1016 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Sorry mumbles how do you mean? I have worked with kno3 for a very long time and was more after help not abuse Mumbles is 100% correct. Your very lucky that you didn't mix up a 5 or 10g batch of it. Would have been a completely different story. 1) Any type of flash powder( a fine metal powder, and an oxidiser) should be treated with alot of respect.2) Never every put any flash mix into a mortar and pestle. 3) Use the diaper method. I recommend you use a piece of coloured A4. This way you can use the back of a spoon and very gently, go over the mixture to break up any clumps of chemicals. You post is a prime example of a very amatuer pyro. 99.5% of this forum will not be mean to you, they just don't want you to hurt your self or others, due to a severe lack of knowledge. We're happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Using the back of a spoon to break up clumps while using the diaper method is just about as bad as using a mortar and pestle unless you are just using it on individual chemicals to help break them up before combining everything. Individual chems (shouldn't need to do the metals) should be screened to break up any lumps before being poured onto paper when using the diaper method. If throughly screened, there shouldn't be any lumps to break up. Diapering back and forth should then intimately mix everything. If there is somehow a lump after screening the individual chems multiple times, then a quick finger poke with a gloved hand should break apart any soft lump though that should be a very rare occurence. Friction and impact are your enemy when dealing with flash and can be controlled somewhat. Static is also your enemy but somewhat harder to control. Not working in dry conditions and even spraying the floor with water to increase humidity can help as well as the use of anti static spray from the laundry section of the grocery store. Sure this is probably overboard for small 1 gram amounts. But they can cause burns that will really make you wish you had followed every precaution. There are also other things that can be done. The binary method should be used any time it can be. Then there are other options like using TPA and making "safe" flash. But many people don't seem to want to try the latter it seems, but it works great for me. Like I said before, I'm not trying to be mean. And most likely nothing bad will happen. But that one in a million chance just isn't worth it in my book. Lots of people win the lottery which has much more unlikely odds of happening. We all walk this earth one time and we all get to make our decisions. Reading good literature and knowing what you are getting into is much better than trusting some internet site or anarchist cookbook that doesn't pay attention to safety at all. No one here wants to see someone get hurt and there are still really bad accidents with much more experienced people that happen every year. Good luck and stay safe everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) You shouldnt need to use the back of a spoon if the chems are dry and freeflowing before they go onto the paper. The spoon could also generate static. looks like FMB beat me to it Edited August 31, 2013 by Col 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie1016 Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 You shouldnt need to use the back of a spoon if the chems are dry and freeflowing before they go onto the paper. The spoon could also generate static. looks like FMB beat me to it My coffee grind all of my KClO4 to airfloat. However, sometimes the powder clumps together. I pass my Perc through a 20# screen first, however it's probably not fine enough. I use the back of a wooden cooking spoon, and very very gently smooth the mixture out if I see any white bits (Perc). Please can I have people's views on this! Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessalco Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) In making flash in the open, or even using the binary method, I use a combination of screening and diapering. I screen together 70 parts KCLO4 with 5 parts dark al. This mixture is flame, friction, and shock insensitive - but it does (mostly) stop the perc from clumping. Then add the rest of the al and mix by diapering. No clumps. This method was developed by Ned Gorski. I find it to be very effective in getting a uniform mix easily. Kevin O Edited September 1, 2013 by Nessalco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giod Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Hi guys and girls. Im new to this site so wondering if there is someone out there with an amazing knowledge on flash compositions that can help me.So last night i was experimenting with my usual kno3 mgal flash and trying some new compositions. My usual mix being 60:40 mgal:kno3 +10% sulphur. This mix is ok and gives a nice report and is fairly safe to work with from what i understand. Next....decided to to try 70:30 +10% sulphur. (I should note i am not new to this scene and have been mixing my own compositions for a few years now) this was a 1 gram batch and i wish to god i recorded me mixing but who does that! Ok so just to smooth out the powder a little i stirred lightly in a mortar ( very lightly ) 30 seconds later there was a loud crack and flash! The mix self confined and pretty much blew my hand out the mortar! Now as i said i am not new to this and have been using this method for a very long time now. Could someone please enlighten me or share a story of similar fashion to this one? Thanks heapsAsh What mesh mgal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giod Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 In making flash in the open, or even using the binary method, I use a combination of screening and diapering. I screen together 70 parts KCLO4 with 5 parts dark al. This mixture is flame, friction, and shock insensitive - but it does (mostly) stop the perc from clumping. Then add the rest of the al and mix by diapering. No clumps. This method was developed by Ned Gorski. I find it to be very effective in getting a uniform mix easily. Kevin O His long can this be stored? Screening the Al is safe in this quantity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakenbake Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Flash should never be stored. You can screen the Al if you want to seperately. I've never needed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessalco Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 His long can this be stored? Screening the Al is safe in this quantity? The pre-mix (70:5) will not burn. You can hold a torch on it all day long and it won't take fire. You can store it as long as you like - it is not a pyrotechnic composition. Once you add the other 25 parts al you've got flash - which as you know is shock, friction, and static sensitive. I never store loose flash, only what is enclosed in shells or effects. Kevin O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster90ash Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 Hey guys thanks heaps for the replys.....but I was not using a pestle. Just a mortar as a bowl. And the mesh is 325 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster90ash Posted September 3, 2013 Author Share Posted September 3, 2013 As i said i mixed in the mortar by rolling it around. I never once used the word pestle. So please stop assuming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserface Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 when you say "mixing in a mortar and it exploded" people are going to assume, also, NOT saying, I was binary mixing / diapering is going to cause quick assumptions. I am also curious, what was the intended purpose for this flash anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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