Straight Meal D for endburner?

[FlaMtnBkr]

Well you are giving us conflicting information at this point and just need to tell us exactly what you are doing. You started out saying you were using commercial Meal D but now it seems you are using raw chemicals? If you are going to use Ben's info then stick with his info and don't try to also take our advice because they might not go together.

 

If you are using commercial store bought/made Meal D powder then you should be able to make an endburner that will get off the ground. But it isn't going to lift much more than itself. If it was a cored rocket then you could get a pretty hot rocket. If you are now using individual chemicals which it sounds like then you aren't going to get anything but frustration. If it was a cored rocket you could make a decent rocket.

 

There is no point in adding anything extra at this point. No dextrine, Ti, or additional charcoal. Using dextrine and alcohol will do nothing because dextrine is not activated by alcohol, only water. There is also no point in using a binder as it just makes the powder harder to consolidate. Save adding stuff until you really understand what is going on and can get your motors to fly everytime. Cored rockets are definitely easier to learn on than endburners but if you are making the investment then you can get the endburners going. Just going to take a little more trial and error.

 

If you are using individual chemicals then you need to explain your process and probably read up on making black powder. You aren't going to get a good flight with an end burner until you can start miling your chemicals and using a hot charcoal. Making a hot charcoal isn't that hard using the TLUD method which basically uses about ten bucks worth of metal cans from Home Depot or Lowes. The charcoal can be made from eastern red cedar pet bedding from Walmart. Good sulfur can sometimes be found in a nursery but probably should be bought. Good KNO3 can also be bought at a nursery but is usually in 50 lb bags if you can find it. All this info is on here but it will take a while figuring it all out. Read up and ask questions and we will get you going. You really need to make as hot of black powder as you can with end burner motors.

 

What kind of milling media did you get to go with your HF mill? They are slow going and could be more efficient, but can make hot enough powder with enough time. Good luck.

[nater]

I buy both willow and paulownia from club members. Like was just said above, many people are having excellent results making charcoal from red cedar pet bedding. I like Alder charcoal, which you can get from places that cater to specialty BBQ supplies.

[Bobosan]

You may have better success finding white pine construction lumber scraps and using TLUD method to make charcoal. As FMB pointed out, the TLUD method is quick, clean and effective at making charcoal regardless of type of wood. The new ball mill will help make faster BP.

[skid68]

Well you are giving us conflicting information at this point and just need to tell us exactly what you are doing. You started out saying you were using commercial Meal D but now it seems you are using raw chemicals? If you are going to use Ben's info then stick with his info and don't try to also take our advice because they might not go together.

 

If you are using commercial store bought/made Meal D powder then you should be able to make an endburner that will get off the ground. But it isn't going to lift much more than itself. If it was a cored rocket then you could get a pretty hot rocket. If you are now using individual chemicals which it sounds like then you aren't going to get anything but frustration. If it was a cored rocket you could make a decent rocket.

 

There is no point in adding anything extra at this point. No dextrine, Ti, or additional charcoal. Using dextrine and alcohol will do nothing because dextrine is not activated by alcohol, only water. There is also no point in using a binder as it just makes the powder harder to consolidate. Save adding stuff until you really understand what is going on and can get your motors to fly everytime. Cored rockets are definitely easier to learn on than endburners but if you are making the investment then you can get the endburners going. Just going to take a little more trial and error.

 

If you are using individual chemicals then you need to explain your process and probably read up on making black powder. You aren't going to get a good flight with an end burner until you can start miling your chemicals and using a hot charcoal. Making a hot charcoal isn't that hard using the TLUD method which basically uses about ten bucks worth of metal cans from Home Depot or Lowes. The charcoal can be made from eastern red cedar pet bedding from Walmart. Good sulfur can sometimes be found in a nursery but probably should be bought. Good KNO3 can also be bought at a nursery but is usually in 50 lb bags if you can find it. All this info is on here but it will take a while figuring it all out. Read up and ask questions and we will get you going. You really need to make as hot of black powder as you can with end burner motors.

 

What kind of milling media did you get to go with your HF mill? They are slow going and could be more efficient, but can make hot enough powder with enough time. Good luck.

 

At first I was just using the Meal, but after the cato's, talking with you guys, and talking to Ben, I found that I really need to press commercial Meal to get good enough consolidation. That's when Ben said to just try the screened mix above because it is much easier to hand ram/consolidate, so I thought I would give it a go.

 

I'll read up on the TLUD method thanks. I get my chems, Sulfur, Kn03, etc from Pyro Chem Source they have pretty good prices. But I will try some of that Red Cedar to replace the airfloat I've been using, thanks.

 

I ordered the 5lb 200ct 1/2" lead media from Skylighter. Hopefully it will be here this week.

 

Thanks Nater, and Bobosan. I'll look into those woods also.

[Novacastrian]

Hey Skid, i'm new here so take this with a grain of salt.

 

I have found that when i made my BP using the 75-15-10 formula it burnt slowly. When i changed to 74-14-12 the burn rate increased roughly three fold.

Chems ground in mortar and pestle, white pine used as charcoal. Not ball milled just mixed in a container.

[leedrill]

Hey Skid, i'm new here so take this with a grain of salt.

 

I have found that when i made my BP using the 75-15-10 formula it burnt slowly. When i changed to 74-14-12 the burn rate increased roughly three fold.

Chems ground in mortar and pestle, white pine used as charcoal. Not ball milled just mixed in a container.

i find the three fold hard to believe but i have been told that in some factories some use different ratios to suit their charcoal the softer lighter chars can use a little more oxidiser due to the porousness of the soft char allows more contact of fuel to oxidiser and with the hard woods the surface area the oxidiser can come in contact with is less so more fuel is used i dont see more sulfur helping other than aiding in ignition a very minute fraxtion more than standard but i dont see it speeding up

[Novacastrian]

Three times is just a guess, it surely burnt twice as fast! This could come down to how much it was ground though as well.

 

I was very surprised by the difference.

[skid68]

Ok, time for an update. I borrowed a friends press and had another go at these endburners. As you can see, a press really helps get these things off the ground. Now I need to buy my own.

First one was dry Meal D pressed to 5000 psi on the fuel. Cato

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vJyRTn4x1Q

Second was dry Meal D pressed to 6800 psi on the fuel. Success!

Third was Meal D with 2% Mineral Oil to help consolidate, pressed to 6800 psi on the fuel. It worked well, but much slower compared to no oil.

Fourth was dry Meal D pressed to 6800 psi on the fuel with 10% Ti, and a 50g header. It lifted with no problems.

[pyroman2498]

I Would just like to give my results here for documentation and if someone would like pointers :

-I found that using some heavy grit sandpaper at the ends where the nozzle is being pressed or rammed will help give the clay something to grip onto

-Anything slower than good HOT BP will cause either a failure to lift or if it does lift it wont fly strait , but will rather fly out of the tube than strait into the ground

-Ramming strait meal is a pain and very messy , wetting it with some Mineral oil will make ramming a little easier

-if you roll your tubes and press them , roll them thick[wall thickness] ( dont over do it to much, but a 1/8" Wall for my 4oz rockets seem to work ) and DONT FORGET YOUR Tube Support/ sleeve

-Get tooling , you may like to drill them , but it get tedious drilling , investing in some tooling saves time and in my opinion is safer

-record how much comp you press per increment, this will help with making the same result more than once

 

These were just some of my results. Hope they help some

 

Stay Safe and Stay Green

 

~Steven

EDIT: The charcoal i use is Eastern Red Ceder cut from my back yard. me and along with a few friends , we come up to agree that its some of the Hottest stuff we have used

Edited February 8, 2014 by pyroman2498

[Bobosan]

Gotta love those 1 pounders. Nice work skid68.

[kpknd]

Those are great. Did you mill the powder, and for how long? I found that too deep a core in the end will cause a CATO.

[skid68]

Thanks guys. It's a lot more fun when they work.

 

kpknd: It is commercial Meal D. My cores only go in about 1/8" It's tooling from Ben Smith, I believe he said that was the right amount, but no more than that.

[skid68]

Another update to this thread. Here are some of my rockets I shot down at the winter blast. I think the heaviest shell I lifted was 80 grams.

[kpknd]

Skid, Those are really nice!!! Well done. Yes, 1/8" core is about right. Where do you get the commercial meal D? Howmuch for powder, hazmat and shipping altogether?

[skid68]

Thanks kpknd. Rockets are a lot of fun. I picked up some 1lb core burner tooling from Hunter down there so I can start lifting some shells. I originally bought the end burner tooling for girnadola's. My first love. I get my powder from Bear River Powder. They deliver to the winter blast. They are also close to me so I don't have to pay shipping. Not sure I should post the price per lb though. Give Craig Kirkland a call. He is a really nice guy to work with.

 

Bear River Powder
P.O. Box 2853
Evanston, WY 82931
Phone: 307-679-0886
E-Mail: bearriverpowder@allwest.net