First Aid

[BigBang]

It seems people know little about general first aid, smart things to do when the accidents has happened.

 

This is a sticky thread, and I will not lock it, so you can add your tips and hints. I will edit your post into this one every now and then, so that in the end, this will be one big sticky with what to do when various things happen. As my cousin is a doctor, I will ask him for advice on all the things you post, so we get a professionals opinion on what to do.

 

TREATMENT OF BURNS:

 

Whenever you get burnt, the smart thing to do is to cool the area that is burnt IMMEDEATLY. What you use, cold water, an ice pack, ice cubes or anything else you might have at hand, doesn't really matter. Keep the cold there for 20 minutes.

 

This is to reduce inflammation of the area. The cold temperature prevents a lot of blood coming to the area of damage. If you do not put something cold on the burnt area, it will swell up much more, and damages will be greater both to the surrounding skin and the deeper tissue.

 

Water is not the best thing to use on 3rd degree burns, as it tends to dry out the area of damage, something you don't want to happen. In 3rd degree burns, the best thing to do is to cool it with an ice pack or a bag of ice cubes. AFTER this cooling, you can wash the area with mild soap and water to get rid of any shit that might be left in the wound, like potassium oxide, sufur oxides, carbon, and other nastiness. Dry the area carefully.

 

For all burns, it is smart to put on fatty creme/lotion after the cooling period. This is to keep the skin moist. If your skin dries out, it will not be as flexible, and it might even crack open, destroying even more skin, or stretching the burnt area. Keeping the skin moist(with fat, not water) will also accelerate the rate of healing.

 

On 2nd degree burns(blisters) it is of course smart to leave the skin on, not rip it off. The skin will heal faster and and nicer if you keep the skin bubble on. Also, ripping off the skin raises the chance of the area getting an infection.

 

Painkillers are OK, but in pill form is better that the type you smear on the damaged area(at least for 3rd degree burns).

 

Disinfectant is not needed on 1st and 2nd degree burns, and even on 3rd degree burns(you should get to the hospital fast) there will be no bacterial/viral infection before you reach the hospital.

 

If you need medical attention(mostly 3rd degree burns, and larger 1st and 2nd degree burns), go to a doctor AFTER having done all this.

 

LOSS OF LIMBS

 

If you are so dumb or unlucky that you lost a limb, say a finger, hand or something like that, be sure to find the limb(if you are in condition to), put the limb on ice, so it can be operated on later on. It may not work anyway, but it is better to have that possibility.

 

BLEEDING

 

Elevate area of the wound and apply direct pressure to slow the bleeding. Again, don't cut off the surculation as this could lead to the limb, if this is where the wound is located, needing amputation. The wound should be rinsed with water and then smartly bandaged, don't just use a little tiny band-aid for a large gash!

[Draco_Aster]

If a chemical burns the skin, follow these steps:

Remove the cause of the burn by flushing the chemicals off the skin surface with cool, running water for 15 minutes or more. If the burning chemical is a powder-like substance such as lime, brush it off the skin before flushing.

 

Remove clothing or jewelry that has been contaminated by the chemical.

 

Wrap the burned area loosely with a dry, sterile dressing or a clean cloth.

 

Minor chemical burns usually heal without further treatment.

Seek emergency medical assistance if:

 

 

If in shock (such as fainting, pale complexion or breathing in a notably shallow manner).

The chemical burn penetrated through the first layer of skin, and the resulting second-degree burn covers an area more than 2 to 3 inches in diameter.

The chemical burn occurred on the eye, hands, feet, face, groin or buttocks, or over a major joint.

 

 

 

If a chemical splashes into your eye, take these steps immediately:

 

Flush your eye with water. Use clean, lukewarm tap water for at least 20 minutes, and use whichever of these approaches is quickest:

Get into the shower and aim a gentle stream of lukewarm water on the forehead over the affected eye. Or, aim the stream on the bridge of the nose if both eyes are affected.

 

Or, put your head down and turn it to the side. Then hold your affected eye open under a gently running faucet.

Remember to flush for at least 20 minutes no matter which method you choose.

 

Wash your hands with soap and water. Thoroughly rinse your hands to be sure no chemical or soap is left on them. Your first goal is to get the chemical off the surface of your eye, but then you need to make sure to remove the chemical from your hands.

 

Remove contact lenses. If they didn't come out during the flush, then take them out.

Caution:

 

Don't rub the eye — this may cause further damage.

Don't put anything except water or contact lens saline rinse in the eye, and don't use eyedrops unless emergency personnel tell you to do so.

 

I got this info from http://www.mayoclinic.com

I do not take credit for it.

[Douchermann]

Also, some chemicals have specific antidotes to them. Flouride burns need calcium gluconate. Barium poisoning requires oral intake of magnesium sulfate solution.

[unlisted]

Okay, I know I am new to this forum, and I only recently acquired my pyro permits, but I have been EMS trained for over a decade, so I can speak from experience on this.

 

Regarding BigBang's post, there is a few errors. Now, some of the procedures may be different in other countries, but I feel I should post what I know, and what I just confirmed from the training book.

 

Some chemical burns will react with water, so water may not be the best option at times. As another one pointed out, brush the chemical away may be all you can do. KNOW what chemicals are being used!

 

Ice should only be used for 15 mins on; (applied) 15 mins off rotation. Any longer than 15 minutes can cause further damage to skin, from freezing.

 

Also, regarding eyes/ immediate area around eyes, DO NTO USE ICE! You can freeze your eyeball, and trust me, that is not good. Use a cold cloth.

 

Amputations:

 

Considering the mechanism of injury, you may be mostly out of luck on reattachment, or even finding it. If you should happen to find it, (lets say a hand) here is the procedure you should follow:

 

First, control the bleeding on the part still attached to the casualty. (forearm) Apply direct pressure if needed to the wound. Send for medical help. Care for the injured person, get them into a relaxed position, (example semisitting/ lying on back) and keep the injury elevated above the heart as much as possible. Treat for shock.

 

For the amputated part: keep in a cool, shaded place, wrap the (in this case) hand in a clean, moist bandage like gauze, (if not ablt to moisten, dry will do)

Now put the hand in a clean, watertight plastic bag ans seal it.

Put this bag in a second plastic bag or container partially filled with crushed ice.

Attach a record of the date and time this was done and send this package with the casualty to medical help.

 

Partially Amputated Parts:

 

Lets say a finger: reposition the finger to its normal position. Apply direct pressure and cover the area with thick guaze that is moistened, dry will work also. Bandage in position. Get to medical aid.

 

Remember to give life saving first aid before caring for an amputated part.

 

 

Theres alot more but I think this covers the main part of it for now. I will post more when I have time.

 

I am also glad to see this Safety forum here.

[pyrochris]

Actually, the best thing to do is for lost limbs, put it in milk, this helps preserve the lost limb a lot longer than regular ice would.

[unlisted]

Actually, the best thing to do is for lost limbs, put it in milk, this helps preserve the lost limb a lot longer than regular ice would.

I have never heard of this, nor has anyone else I work with.

 

Can you show me a web link that says this should be done?

 

Also, what country are you in?

[Toronto25]

Oh boy, where to start.

 

First of all, the absolute WORST thing you can do to a burn is apply ice or anything cold like that. The idea is that you want to cool the burn slowly. Too fast and serious damage can occour. Generally, you want to aim for room temperature in about 1/2 hour to 1 hour. The best way to do this is to gradually decrease the temperature of the saline solution you want to soak it in. Once the heat source is removed, no further damage is going to occour as long as you begin decreasing the temperature at the burn site.

 

Applying oil based creams such as a cortisone cream is also a bad idea. These products are by nature, oil based. The oily substance will keep the burn hydrated but it will also seriously slow down temperature decrease. Once the burn site is at room temperature, you want to clean the area while keeping it moist. The best way to do this is with a saline solution. Soak a gauze pad (the non-sticky kind - burn pads work great) in saline solution and hold/tape it on for 30 minutes or so. Remove it, and reapply a fresh pad again soaked in a saline solution for a further half hour. Do this over the course of 3 hours. After that's done, apply a gauze pad and tape it into place. This will keep contaminients out of the wound and help prevent the site from going septic. You're going to want to change this pad every few hours, especially if the wound is leaking fluids. Once the burn site isn't an open wound anymore (that is, when you apply a dry pad, it stays dry), it is safe to apply a cortisone/burn cream to keep away infection and promote faster healing.

 

Recovering from a severe burn is never an easy (or painless) thing. In a pinch, a ladies maxi-pad can be used in place of a burn pad. I always carry several in my kit as they work great for many things, specifically for wounds that bleed a lot - they're very absorbant and generally don't stick to the wound. They aren't 100% sterile however so you should always use caution. I would strongly recommend placing a sterile gauze pad underneath the napkin.

 

 

When a limb is amputated from the body, most commonly a finger, putting it on ice used to be seen as the best way to increase chances of re-attatchment. However as of late, the professionals are advising against this. Think about what happens when you freeze water in your ice-cube tray. It expands. Now apply that thinking to the water inside your cells. Putting an amputated digit on ice is generally thought of to be a bad practice, as there is a signifigant chance for severe irreversable damage. If too many cells freeze and burst, reattatchment might not be an option. Besides, the best way to increase chances of reattatchment are to seek medical care immediatly. The best way to store an amputated digit is to put it inside a sterile bag (a urine sample container works good here as well) and keep it cool. Cool doesn't mean frozen. While it may not be possible, putting it inside a cooler with ice packs is the best idea.

 

I may have misread your original suggestion about putting a limb/digit on ice. I was understanding that you meant putting it directly on ice. This is the bad idea I speak of, but putting it in a container that is inside an ice filled container is a good idea. The idea is to get air around the digit, between it and the ice, to act as an insulator. Remember, you do not want to let it freeze!

 

 

As with ANY medical emergency, no matter how trivial it may seem - seek professional help as soon as possible. This doesn't mean tomorrow, this means right now. If a burn is so bad that it's gone third degree, someone should be on the phone with 911 immediatly. While properly applied first aid can be a life saver, or at the very least, promote a speedy recovery, it is certainly NOT a replacement for professional medical care such as a hospital emergency room.

 

Even as paramedics, our purpose isn't to replace hospital care, it's to suppliment it with pre-hospital care in the attempt to preserve life. I realize it's not always possible to have all the items on hand that you need to treat everything possible, but please, if you're going to be doing anything that could possibly injure yourself, have a first aid kit on hand. You'd be suprised just how much of a difference it can make. Also, make sure your first aid kit is tailored to your activity. You could have the best first aid kit in the world, but if it's lacking what you really need, what's the point?

 

Anyway, first time poster here - I just wanted to shed some light on my experiences and hopefully lend some constructive input.

[Toronto25]

I also forgot to add. I've never heard of putting an amputated limb on milk instead of ice. However, milk has a much better temperature coefficient than water. That is to say, it keeps it's cool much longer. So for that reason I would say it wouldn't hurt. It certainly isn't going to cause any damage so if it's the only thing you have on hand, definatly go ahead and use it.

[HoS]

I find that soaking 1st-2nd degree burns in a MgSO4 icebath makes them feel much better (And seems to make the burn area painless for a long time)

[Pretty green flame]

I find that soaking 1st-2nd degree burns in a MgSO4 icebath makes them feel much better (And seems to make the burn area painless for a long time)

I personally would be cautious using things that make the pain go away. This could prevent you from recognising the full extent of the injury.

 

I'd rather feel pain than to think i'm ok when i'm not but i guess it'd be ok for 1st degree burns, wouldn't use them for anything above that though.

[ST1DinOH]

I also forgot to add. I've never heard of putting an amputated limb on milk instead of ice. However, milk has a much better temperature coefficient than water. That is to say, it keeps it's cool much longer. So for that reason I would say it wouldn't hurt. It certainly isn't going to cause any damage so if it's the only thing you have on hand, definatly go ahead and use it.

i think the only time i've heard of milk being used to preserve something formerly attached to your body is in regaurds to a tooth.

 

if you trip and fall face first into a tail hitch and blow your chompers out you might want to drop them in some vitamin d and head for the dentist...but i doubt a severed appendage would fair to well in milk. that seams rather counter productive.

[Aquarius]

As for the milk part, I know of one use, and that is for losing a tooth. But the best place to keep a loose toth is actually in your mouth until you reach a dentist. But if you have a mishap with a exploding firework, thrust me, a lost tooth is a minor concern.

 

Be careful when giving advice on first aid. If people here wish to post, make sure you know what your are preaching.

Evaluate your sources and use your best judgement when listening to others.

[batman]

bigbang \/

 

"LOSS OF LIMBS

 

If you are so dumb or unlucky that you lost a limb, say a finger, hand or something like that, be sure to find the limb(if you are in condition to), put the limb on ice, so it can be operated on later on. It may not work anyway, but it is better to have that possibility."

 

 

I believe in the case of loosing a finger you are first required to put the dismembered finger in a plastic bag before placing it on ice, i think this stop moisture getting in but keeps it fresh until surgery.

[Aquarius]

The reason you shold put a barrier between yor finger (or limb) and the ice is simply to prewent the tissue from freezing and adding damage to the lost limb. But again, read on the subject or take a first aid course.

Info on the net is not all that accurate, I myself do not trust all that is written on forums, not this one eighter..

[batman]

oh ok i see, yeah personally i dont assume the information on forums are correct, unless the obvious is stated, however i like to read all the information that has been posted and research to see if it is credible, if something bad were to happen one day i`d like to have the right methods to deal with the situation.

[Flying dutchman]

I'm surprised that nobody has talked about the picric acid!

If you have a burn,put a bit concentrated solution of picric acid on the burned skin,it will reduce the pain a lot.

I've already tried it and it works good.

[BLAST420]

....picric acid ok lol If some has that layin around the good ol workshop I might stop an wander. lol If Im not mistaken it is used primarly as an explosive...has been used for treating burns and what not(when we dint have stoors to walk into and buy burn cream) But I mean doesnt that shit stain your skin for like up too a month it is used as a dye ....in my opiion I would never want picric acid any where near me!! LOL

[TheSidewinder]

I have to correct part of this entire thread, and that has to do with the treatment of any type of burn. What's been recommended above is VERY risky, or just plain DANGEROUS. (Putting Picric Acid on a minor burn may relieve pain, but it's damned foolish to do so!)

 

 

First, I speak from the position of someone who held an "American Red Cross Advanced First Aid And Emergency Care" certificate for nearly 30 years, and at one time was a certified EMT-A ("Emergency Medical Technician - Ambulance Endorsed"), which is today's "Paramedic".

 

The treatment of burns can be one of the most difficult (and painful) aspects of any injury. Infection is a VERY REAL possibility in any burn above "first-degree", and could require hospitalization for something that, if properly treated in the first place, would have resulted in no more than a doctor's office/emergency room visit at worst.

 

First, a clarification of the three general types of burns. Make careful note of descriptions:

 

First-degree: Reddening of the skin, localized pain, NO blisters, NO broken skin.

 

Second-degree: Reddening OR whitening ("bleaching"), intense pain, blistering, broken skin, "weeping" of lymphatic fluid. NO actual charring of the skin, NO bleeding.

 

Third-degree: There is no doubt that this is the most severe, AND DANGEROUS, type of burn. Charring of the skin, actual carbonization of skin, muscle, ligaments, tendons, and fatty tissue. Complete loss of the epidermis in the affected area. Skin "hanging off" of limbs. There might be bleeding, but often not since it's been "cauterized". There might be NO initial pain, but that will certainly change to pain the likes of which is indescribable to anyone who has not suffered them. INFECTION IS A CERTAINTY, NOT A POSSIBILITY, and will require antibiotic treatment (perhaps by IV), tetanus shots, etc. It ALWAYS requires professional and sterile cleaning, and ongoing medical attention. Debridement, the process of "scrubbing off" the dead skin under sterile conditions, has been described as the worst pain a human being can suffer. It almost always requires heavy sedation while being done, and even then you still feel INTENSE pain as its being done. I've helped treat a third-degree burn patient. It's something that I NEVER want to have to do again, and is simply indescribable, that's all I can say.

 

 

That said, here are the "First Aid" treaments that were chapter and verse from the American Medical Association at the time I last held some type of certification, in the mid-90's. To my knowledge this has not changed, and I "keep up" on First Aid even though I hold no formal certification at this time.

 

First, and most important:

 

NEVER, EVER put anything fat- or oil-based, including butter, on any burn! NEVER!

 

NEVER use "Aunt Myrtle's Home Burn Remedy", or anything not specifically designed to treat burns. You might "get away" with it, but you're most likely going to compound the problem, or create one thst didn't exist in the first place.

 

NEVER, EVER, put anything OTHER than STERILE water and STERILE gauze on a burn ABOVE first-degree.

 

First-degree burns are minor, and treatable at home, ONLY if promptly and properly treated, as below.

 

Second-degree burns, under certain circumstances, can be treated at home without needing a doctor's attention. But you had better know how to maintain a "sterile field" when treating them, and if you don't you MUST seek prompt medical attention. And even if you DO know how to create and maintain a sterile field, infection can result despite the most careful attention to treatment.

 

Third-degree burns: There is ONE, and ONLY one, "first-aid" treatment for actual third-degree burns, and is noted below. Emergency care at a hospital is MANDATORY. There is NO "home-treatment" WHATSOEVER. Treatment MUST include proper medical attention, and IMMEDIATELY.

 

First Aid Treatments:

 

First-degree burns:

IMMEDIATELY run COLD water, as cold as you can get it but above 35 degrees F, on the affected area for FIFTEEN FULL MINUTES. First-degree burns are progressive! If you FAIL to begin cold water treatment within 30-45 seconds of a first-degree burn, or fail to TREAT the first-degree burn for the recommended length of time, it could become a SECOND-degree burn, due to heat retention killing what were initially unaffected (or mildly affected, but not yet dead) cells under the epidermis, the outermost layer of skin.

 

DO NOT APPLY ICE CUBES TO A FIRST-DEGREE BURN AND DO NOT IMMERSE THE AFFECTED AREA IN ICE WATER. You can cause more damage than the burn would have caused in the first place, to skin cells that have been "overheated" but are not yet dead. Near-freezing from the cold can kill the cells by rupturing them. Use running cold tap water only, and for the time specified above.

 

If, after initial treatment, there are chemical residues which are still "stuck" to the skin, use a sterile gauze pad with a strong antispetic soap to GENTLY wipe the area and attempt to remove the residues. If you fail to remove the chemicals, you have to ask yourself: What ARE they? Are they toxic, carcinogenic, or caustic? If the answer is yes, you should see a doctor, and promptly, for your own sake. They will know how best to treat the burn. If the answer is NO, they're harmless, then again for your sake keep the area as clean as you can, GENTLY cleaning the area repeatedly, and several times a day, until as much of the residue as you get, is gone. Keep a close eye on the area. If it heals without further treatment, consider yourself lucky. (As a comparison, a sunburn is USUALLY a first-degree burn, but can be a second-degree burn. If your skin blisters within 12-24 hours of a sunburn, it's considered a second-degree burn. Peeling of skin after many days doesn't mean it was second-degree, but it does mean you killed the very outermost layer of your skin.)

 

Now, once treatment is done and assuming no chemical residue remains, until the affected area is completely "healed", keep it as clean as possible. As said above, DO NOT apply any fat- or oil-based treatment, including butter. A water-based antibiotic creme can be used, as a further step to prevent possible infection, but as long as the skin is unbroken and clean it's not really necessary.

 

 

Second-Degree Burns:

If you cannot begin prompt treatment of what initially appears to be a first-degree burn, it can BECOME a second-degree burn and will blister, weep lymphatic fluid, and slough off the epidermis. If the heat source has already caused blistering (but WITHOUT charring), it is a second-degree burn. One more important thing: If the total area burned is LARGER than 6 inches by 4 inches (roughly 2 one-dollar bills laid long-side together), go see a doctor no matter what. There are complications that can happen later, which cannot be handled by home treatment. Pay a little now, or pay a GREAT deal more later. "Sunburns" are the only exception, and even then some second-degree sunburn victims end up in the hospital.

 

If the skin is already blistered, this is when you MUST follow sterile procedures. (IF YOU CANNOT, THEN GO SEE A DOCTOR. PERIOD!) Pour very cold STERILE water over the burned area for fifteen minutes, just as you would for a first-degree burn. (Be prepared for PAIN, and lots of it.) Once the cold water treatment is complete, examine the burn closely. If the skin is blistered, but the blisters are NOT broken, continue cold water treatment for another 10-15 minutes. Then, COVER but do not WRAP the burned area. Use sterile medical tape to affix the edges of the gauze to UNAFFECTED skin. DO NOT apply any "burn creme" or antibiotic cream to the area. If you keep the affected skin from being further exposed to dirt, germs, etc, it should heal on its own. (But keep a close eye out for infection.)

 

If the burned area has debris or melted synthetic fabric stuck to it, DO NOT pick it off or attempt to "rub" it off prior to the treatment above. Once the treatment is done, and IF the debris/fabric is still stuck to the blistered area, then sorry, but you MUST go see a doctor to get it removed and the burn correctly treated. Failure to do so will likely result in an infection. (Failure to treat the infection could possibly KILL YOU.)

 

And keep in mind that an infection, resulting from improper "First Aid", will ABSOLUTELY cost you more in the long run than would a doctor's office or Emergency Room visit in the first place.

 

 

Now, last but not least, third-degree burn treatment. There is ONE, and ONLY one treatment for third-degree burns, as below:

 

1) First, if the victim is still ACTUALLY BURNING OR SMOLDERING, extinguish the fire with whatever you HAVE to use to get it out. First choice is plain water, even in cases where you would not normally use water to fight it. Sterile water if possible, but ANY water is better than letting them continue to burn. Second choice is a CO2 fire extinguisher, but that's a real balancing act between getting the fire out and causing MORE damage by "freeze-burning" the victim. Third, and last choice, is a "dry powder" extinguisher. All that powder will further contaminate the burned area, and will have to be cleaned out at some point anyway, but it's still preferred to letting them continue to smolder.

 

1-A) Once the victim is no longer actually burning/smoldering, move them ONLY if their life in still in immediate danger from fire, explosion, whatever, and move them ONLY as far as necessary to eliminate the immediate danger. Otherwise, DO NOT move them.

 

2) CALL AN AMBULANCE! If possible, have someone do this FIRST. But if you're the only person available to help, now is the time to do it.

 

3) Now, as ugly as this sounds, if the victim's skin is "hanging off" their extremities, don't do a thing. They are simply beyond your help. Keep them as still as you can and wait for the ambulance. But, assuming the burns aren't that large and severe...

LIGHTLY cover the burned area with STERILE cloth, to avoid further contamination. Do not "wrap" the burns, "cover" them. If non-sterile, but CLEAN, cloth is available, use that. Otherwise do not cover the burned area with ANYTHING AT ALL. Try to keep the victim from moving themselves. Do NOT touch the burned area. DO NOT try to remove any debris from the wounds. Leave it strictly alone. This victim is BEYOND your abililty to provide any further "First Aid" than the steps outlined above. While waiting for the ambulance, consider what you plan to tell the medics, and the police who will definitely be showing up. Tell the truth as far as you can, with respect to the causes of the burns and their source. If you know, for example, that it was a burning Barium compound, say so. You may save the victim's life. Failure to tell at least this much of the truth could result in the victim dying before they discover that they have a case of poisoning on top of the burns. Unless you actually ARE an uninvolved passerby, you're already in trouble. Don't try to cover your ass. The degree to which you will pay for your actions leading UP to this point, will depend at least somewhat on your actions AFTER this point.

 

 

And in all cases, for any type of burn resulting from our hobby:

 

If a doctor/hospital visit is necessary, and you are NOT "legal" in your hobby, make up SOME credible story, since saying the word "fireworks" anywhere in your explanation is going to result in Legal attention, and always unfavorable. Find SOME way to let them know what chemical (or combination) burned you without saying "fireworks", UNLESS they are allowed where you live. Certain States DO allow unlimited Class C use, but I'd bet the law will still get involved nevertheless.

 

This is especially true if the burn is contaminated with a toxic, caustic, carcinogenic, or other hazardous chemical.

 

Now, if you ARE completely "legal", with an ATF permit, a proper site, etc, etc, then in that case tell the unvarnished truth. But I'm willing to bet the authorities will become involved no matter how well you have your I's dotted and T's crossed.

 

In closing, and assuming you're still conscious after reading this far, let me stress that burns are wounds which require very close attention to detail and treatment. These aren't splinters in your fingers. While many burns in and of themselves are minor, it's the complications that result FROM the burns which can cause more grief that you ever thought possible.

 

Thanks, and I hope this keeps someone from learning the hard way what I've personally seen over the decades.

 

TheSidewinder

[frogy]

I also forgot to add.  I've never heard of putting an amputated limb on milk instead of ice.  However, milk has a much better temperature coefficient than water.  That is to say, it keeps it's cool much longer.  So for that reason I would say it wouldn't hurt.  It certainly isn't going to cause any damage so if it's the only thing you have on hand, definatly go ahead and use it.

Temperature coefficient?

I'd imagine that you mean specific heat.

If so, the info you are basing your statement off is incorrect. Milk is about 80% water, but it also consists of other fats and sugars with a lower specific heat.

 

I've been told milk's specific heat is about 2.1 J/g C @ 40°C, where water's specific heat is still in the 3-4 J/g C area...

 

Milk also contains enzymes, which I sure as hell don't want soaking into my amputated limb... They'd have to thoroughly flush the veins\capillaries with a sterile solution, and then blood, before even thinking about re-attaching.

 

Now an appendage wrapped in damped gauze (water-dampened), placed in a waterproof bag, places into a container of cold milk would be a good substitute for cold water.

 

....picric acid ok lol If some has that layin around the good ol workshop I might stop an wander. lol If Im not mistaken it is used primarly as an explosive...has been used for treating burns and what not(when we dint have stoors to walk into and buy burn cream)  But I mean doesnt that shit stain your skin for like up too a month it is used as a dye ....in my opiion I would never want picric acid any where near me!! LOL

I see what someone meant with the comment about him seeming to be 14.

 

....

Debridement, the process of "scrubbing off" the dead skin under sterile conditions, has been described as the worst pain a human being can suffer. It almost always requires heavy sedation while being done, and even then you still feel INTENSE pain as its being done. I've helped treat a third-degree burn patient. It's something that I NEVER want to have to do again, and is simply indescribable, that's all I can say.

....

TheSidewinder

 

My god, all I can tell you is, yes, it has to be incredible painful. I've never physically scrubbed off the dead skin, but my neighbor (quite oddly a firefighter\EMT in the burn unit [what a couple... Pyro neighbor + Firefighter]) does it nearly every day at his job.

 

Once I joined him as the "Heavy"... or the person that holds the patient while they are be debrided. A mid-sized man, sedated with what I believe was Morphine, and plenty of it, was still in crazed pain, and this man seemed fairly "tough".

[Pretty green flame]

May I ask under what condition do the doctors go for "skin scrubbing"? As far as I'm aware the dead skin is left on to protect the new tissue that is formed under the burn, scrubbing the skin off would probably leave horific scars.

[TheSidewinder]

If it's a third-degree burn, the underlying base layer of the skin (the dermis) is actually dead, and CANNOT regenerate itself. It must be removed prior to skin grafting. This is one reason why 3rd degree burn patients have to spend so long in the hopital. Grafting is a long and painful process. Scarring is inevitable. Infection, usually gangrene, is almost a certainty.

 

1st and 2nd degree burns USUALLY don't kill the dermis, and it's from this layer that new skin forms. Scarring is still very likely from a bad 2nd degree burn, however.

 

It's possible to kill the entire dermis with "only" a 2nd degree, and in that case it must be treated in a similar fashion to a 3rd degree burn.

[Gunzway]

To tell you the truth, if I did get 3rd degree burns. (Not over entire body, but like on my arm or something, but only small ones).

I would not be going to hospital. I would be asked so many questions and most likely get a huge ass fine and some sort of order saying I am not allowed the following chemicals. Possibly some sort of jail time too.

I rather not have that.

 

Of course if someone else other than me got injured I'll let them go to hospital and take the blame. But if it was my stupidity/my bad luck I would try and avoid medical attention or anything which could led to attention.

I might just go to a friend's relative which is a doctor or something and tell him to keep his mouth closed and I will pay him like x2 what he normally gets paid.

 

But for those in America or in a place where fireworks are considered legal. And you had 3rd degree burns I highly suggest you to go to a doctor. Even if you don't got your BATF licence (I think that's it) at least you can say it was commercial fireworks. I actually suggest you go to a doctor no matter what. But hell, I love this hobby and I ain't going to let it go from me.

[Swede]

So many here have had some bad burns... I spent my personal time in hell as a 4th grader when I became a human torch because I played with gasoline.

 

The pain is indescribable. Yet here I am, doing pyro. How odd is that? I think I tend to be a bit more meticulous than many, however. The best remedy of course is to avoid the burns in the first place.

 

To all who contributed to this important thread, thank you.

 

I do have a question - what would be the medical effects of a halon extinguisher used to "put out" a victim? Halon is difficult to find, but can still in fact be purchased from suppliers to general aviation. They are really the best for aircraft use, as they leave no residue behind, and hopefully would be more effective than a CO2 extinguisher. Dry chemical on a badly burned person just doesn't sound too smart. So a good extinguisher, close at hand, would be a smart thing.

[AprenticeChemist]

Since im not a burn expert I won't give advice on that. But as far as lost limbs or injury involving loss of blood and stopping it I do have some training. Obviously the first thing you want to do is stop the bleeding. Obviously if its not Arterial(gushing out because its coming from an artery), then you can try a simple pressure bandage.

 

A simple pressure bandage is easy as hell. All there is to it is taking some cloth preferably sterile bandage but if your out doing a det and don't have that then use your shirt or what evers cleanest. Wrap it around the wound and tie it off so that the knot is to the SIDE of the wound. DO NOT TIE IT OVER THE actual wound. Thats all there is to it. If for some reason that doesn't stop the bleeding take a wad of cloth in a ball put it ontop of the wound and then wrap another cloth around your arm again and once again tie to the side, this wad will help put even more pressure to stop bleeding.

 

 

Ok now if somehow you end up blowing off an arm or getting hit with shrapnel and you have arterial bleeding which is where its gushing out and your going to bleed out before the help arrives you want to use a torniquet. Despite what most people will tell you you can have a torniquet on for over 6 hours without any major effects, no it won't cause them to have to amputate or anything but it will save your life. If you don't know what a torniquet is thats where you use a stick(or substitute) and some cloth and you use the stick to twist the cloth around your limb until the bleeding stops. When you apply the torniquit you want to put it at least 2 inches above the wound below the neareast joint, NEVER ON THE JOINT, and NEVER ON THE WOUND. You want it as LOW as you can without being on a joint or the wound. So two inchs ABOVE the wound but not on a joint such as elbow or knee. The only time you should use a torniquet is when its bleeding extremly bad, because first off its going to hurt like a son of a bitch to apply it so you'll probably have to have someone do it for you. If you don't get what a torniquet is look it up. Like I said this is for MAJOR bleeding not minor bleeding.

 

Theres a few other things I could go over like sucking chest wound and if somehow you get stomach injury and all but doubt that would happen in this hobby. But although this shit might seem trivial since in pyro the main injury is burns this shit can save you or others you love in other parts of life. There is always the possiblity of a car accident or getting robbed and shot or theres a bear in your oatmeal and it decides to rip your arm off.

[frogy]

I'm fairly sure that cutting off the circulation, as in a non-arterial wound, would raise the extent of damage to the tissues following the wound, as they would be oxygen deprived, and may even develop clots. You definitely want to apply pressure on the artery that is supplying the blood to the wound, but not stop all blood flow.

 

As Sidewinder said, 3rd degree burns are probably the worst pain a human can experience in their life. That alone should put some extra safety precaution in your mind... See it first hand, and you will be a safety preacher.