Ballmill Media

[TranslucentDragon]

Hi,

I've just bought a 6 Lb. ball mill from Cannon Fuse and I have a couple of questions about the media and the mill itself.

 

First off, for media I have heard that Lead and Stainless Steel are great. Now I actually have Lead that I can cast into balls if needed, but I think i will be needing to mill aluminum down. Will Lead be strong enough to do this or will I need to buy Stainless Steel in order to mill aluminum, if it is even possible.

 

Secondly, I would like my media to last quite a while, so is this going to be an issue with Lead because of chipping? If so, where would I buy Stainless Steel Balls? I'm assuming you can use ball bearings, but what else?

 

Also, what is the rule of thumb for how big I need the media to be (with a 6 Lb jar, how large in diameter does the media have to be) and how many balls do I need?

 

Lastly, am I going to have to make any adjustments to the ball-milling machine or will what comes in the box suffice for grinding materials, making BP, etc... I'm not going to have to change the speed or anything, correct? I guess what I'm trying to ask is if it basically ready-to-use from the box?

 

Thank you all for any input; and sorry for the amount of questions in one post.

[Shadowcat1969]

There are several threads on the forum about mills and media, starting with the one pinned at the top of the "Newbie" section titled "Ball Mill FAQ". There are also a couple of really good threads on modifying that specific mill in order to get better performance for our usage. If you check into some of the past postings, pretty much all your questions should be answered. Also, this same mill is sold by Harbor Freight and is referred to that way a lot here. As for milling aluminum, I'm sure it probably can be done safely, but my understanding (although my memory could be wrong here) is that it is pretty pyrophoric and if you mill it too fine you might end up with an ignition simply by opening the jar after milling. Something that I would shy away from. Hopefully someone corrects me if I am wrong on this one.

[TranslucentDragon]

I have actually read the Ball Milling FAQ many times (I felt that if I didn't read the ONLY pinned post on Newbie section I would have gotten a lot of criticism). Also, I wasn't really asking how it was modified, I was just wondering if BP had to be run at an exact speed or else it wouldn't be made correct (I probably should've specified that). Or is it more like the faster you go, the faster your BP is made. And about the aluminum thing, does that mean I should just buy it at the mesh I want, instead of ball-milling it to make it finer?

 

And I really don't mean to be the "not looking at the forums guy" but I thought these were pretty easy questions that could be answered by professionals, and wouldn't have cost anyone a lot of time (I would've been happy with just a link to another post on the forum), yet I couldn't find this info within the first 5 pages on the forum or on the first page of Google. I'm not really sure how much is considered enough research... but I did try, sorry.

Edited July 29, 2013 by TranslucentDragon

[Bobosan]

TD,

 

The process for making BP depends on several factors like jar size, media type & amount of media charge and the correct amount of raw materials to add for a given size mill jar. The articles below give an idea of these parameters for making BP in a 6lb ball mill.

 

http://www.skylighte...k-and-Cheap.asp

 

http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to/use-a-ball-mill.asp

 

http://www.skylighte...lack-powder.asp

 

Ball milling aluminum can be done but can also be a dangerous undertaking. Your life or severe injury is not worth trying to save a few dollars over store bought aluminum.

 

When Google isn't handing over our surfing habits to the NSA, it will provide you with a wealth of information on BP production. Look for articles from Skylighter as a starting point for basic information.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Bobosan

[TranslucentDragon]

Going back to the media questions:

After looking at some other posts (I know, I know... I should've done this BEFORE I asked), I've decided that for the 6Lb Rock Tumbler/Ball Milling Machine that I would like to use .5 inch or .50 cal stainless steel or brass balls. My only issue is: I can't find them anywhere (and I've even gone so low as to search for them off of Ebay [although I think the "no Ebay" rule really only applies to chemicals]). Is there a website anyone could give me to buy some (as far as I can tell, no one is selling/trading them on the Agora, but if I missed something I'd be happy to buy/ trade) or do Stainless Steel and Brass not exist as balls (only rods)?

[leedrill]

brass is ok but do not {i repeat do not use SS for BP} the rule of the with grinding media is if you can hit it with a cutting disk on an angle grinder and it does not produce sparks {it is definitely a non sparking media} others will use dangerous media and to be honest even with the best non sparking media expect it to spark always put away from the house and turn off before going near it {could save your life } hardened lead, brass, two name the two most commonly used media for bp but there is better out there

if you get well versed in pyrotechnic terminology google is your best friend especially on here

for instance i found this in about 5 secs http://www.ebay.com/itm/333-Dia-Lead-Milling-Round-Balls-Pyrotechnics-650-Balls-5-Lbs-/380687625033?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a2c02b49

 

 

there is plenty of milling media out there but is always pricey expect to pay for good media

[Shadowcat1969]

Translucent,

I didn't mean to come across as not willing to be helpful, but mostly what you asked were things that I myself had answered by reading back through the forums. Sometimes agonizingly old posts, granted.

 

There are plenty of things that are in strange places for the subject as well as lots of highjacked threads with info on media, jar speeds, etc, etc.

 

No need to apologize for asking questions, it's simply that some questions may be ones that have been addressed in agonizing detail already, and have so many facets that an entire thread will be a lot more informative than a single reply.

 

Thanks for being here and adding to the community, we do value you!

[leedrill]

well put shadowcat im a beginner myself and am thankful for the information apc contains and the pros here that are willing to help , but some of the pros find this site quite repetitive because of the same question asked again and again the more we can keep the simplest of questions being ones that havent been asked the more useful of a resource this site will be instead of a repetitive source that drives off the elite builders

 

that being said ive been thinking about putting a post in each forum topic labelled as { most useful threads } im not sure if its such a good idea for the reason that the post might end up just as jumbled as the forum topics and id want to have one of the admins moderate the post so when beginners join apc they can just be pointed to the {most useful threads } thread. pertaining to what they want to build i.e. newb section retort tutorial , bp info , and so on that being said

 

i mentioned before google is your friend first learn as much terminology as you can but for the basics i just typed in { ball milling bp apc } into google and there is links to pretty much all the good info on here

 

a lot of people here are quite educated { more so than me } but education these days is not knowing it is knowing how to find

Edited July 30, 2013 by leedrill

[JayDee2]

I have actually read the Ball Milling FAQ many times (I felt that if I didn't read the ONLY pinned post on Newbie section I would have gotten a lot of criticism). Also, I wasn't really asking how it was modified, I was just wondering if BP had to be run at an exact speed or else it wouldn't be made correct (I probably should've specified that). Or is it more like the faster you go, the faster your BP is made. And about the aluminum thing, does that mean I should just buy it at the mesh I want, instead of ball-milling it to make it finer?

 

And I really don't mean to be the "not looking at the forums guy" but I thought these were pretty easy questions that could be answered by professionals, and wouldn't have cost anyone a lot of time (I would've been happy with just a link to another post on the forum), yet I couldn't find this info within the first 5 pages on the forum or on the first page of Google. I'm not really sure how much is considered enough research... but I did try, sorry.

 

I understand your frustration. I was in the same situation as you a year or so back. Unfortunately when it comes to ball milling there are so many variables and so many options and opinions that it is not a precise science. There many different set ups of rock tumblers and media that will produce good BP (not sure about the wisdom of the milling aluminium thing - that's a totally different can-of-worms and I reckon you would be best to avoid it until you have your BP milling sorted).

 

You can get lead media from numerous places if you do some Internet searching, or just head to Pyrocreations where they have both lead and ceramic. What's wrong or "low" with Ebay?? I use it all the time. Jusy have to be selective and do some research. Their seller "rating" and customer feedback usually gives a good indication of whether they are legit on not.

 

As Bobosan said, Skylighter is a good resource to use.

 

And as for "doing research"........ this is ongoing.......always more to learn. It would get boring otherwise, wouldn't it?

[TranslucentDragon]

Well, the main reason I didn't want to use lead is the fact that these harbor freight rock tumblers seem to break all the time (the belts) mainly for reasons of overloading or shaft misalignment. The second one is fixable by realigning the shafts before running, but if you need 6Lbs. of lead just to fill up the tumbler halfway, then you already leave yourself no room for any comps you want to put in. I figured I would use stainless steel (which I now see I shouldn't use) or brass to keep the weight down, so I didn't even bother looking at any lead weights (and even though I specifically didn't look for them, I still found .50 cal lead shot from searching for the brass). If this isn't an issue then I guess its pointless not to use lead, I just thought weight would be an issue.

[TranslucentDragon]

Also, @leedril: that would be a great idea although as a beginner, I feel I can't help you very much

and

@shadowcat: no hard feelings, I should research more when I ask these questions so I see what you're saying.I will go further back next time, and although there is no reason for excuse (or whatever the saying is), I am slightly pressed on time (I leave to go to Boston tomorrow and I wanted to order the media so it would be here when I got back). Sorry

Edited July 30, 2013 by TranslucentDragon

[Shadowcat1969]

TD - I myself use one of these mills, and I use lead media, simply because I could walk into Bass Pro Shops and buy it off the shelf. It wears faster than ceramic media, but costs a lot less. In order to get started quickly, it is the route I would suggest. I don't use a lot of powder, I only work in small devices, and so my media has lasted over 2 years at this point and I don't anticipate needing to replace it at least for another 2.

 

The charge in the jar really doesn't add much weight, after the lead media is accounted for, you can only do about 150 grams of BP at one time to be most effective for milling time and such. Also, I used this: http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/7835-usapyros-guide-to-harbor-freight-ball-mill-modification/ and my mill runs at good RPM for effective powder.

 

The only other real concern is that your powder will have trace amounts of lead in it from the balls wearing down, so you don't want to be breathing in any smoke from it if you can avoid it.

[Poindexter]

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=1419&step=2

[TranslucentDragon]

Sorry, went up to Boston for a few days and I haven't really looked at much on the forum. I did decide, however, after going back and forth between a lot of media, that I'm going to use 1/2 inch lead hardened with antimony media. Looking around, I see that the average price for about 100 balls is $25 (not including shipping). PyroDirect sells 100 for about $20. Anyone know of anywhere where I could find 100 balls for less, or is that gonna be as low as I can find them?

 

Also, for future reference, would it have been better to make a new thread with this post in a different section, or to continue off of my old one because it does relate to this thread (which is what I'm doing currently).

[Bobosan]

$20 for a hundred is good price. Shipping will hurt ya no matter where you get it. Skylighter sells a 5lb box (200 count) which is the ideal media charge for the 6lb mill

http://www.skylighter.com/lead-milling-media.htm

[TranslucentDragon]

Haha, yeah, I saw. But shipping was a killer here too. With PyroDirect I saved $10 since 200 balls altogether is $40, as opposed to the normal $50 at most places. I had to pay $10 for shipping(which is normal), but at least the balls themselves were cheaper. Skylighter altogether costs $57 (including shipping), PyroDirect costs $47.