Lift Charge Dilemma

[Shadowcat1969]

No, probably not the media size. I use the HF mill and have 200 1/2" lead balls for mine and with the Paulownia Charcoal (bought from Algenco) BP that I mill for 4 hours I use 7% or 8% for small (2" or 3") shells. Using the -10 +20 mesh granules (about a 3Fa or 4Fa size).

 

I do also press and corn mine though I am planning to do some granulation with dextrin and test the difference.

[LambentPyro]

No, probably not the media size. I use the HF mill and have 200 1/2" lead balls for mine and with the Paulownia Charcoal (bought from Algenco) BP that I mill for 4 hours I use 7% or 8% for small (2" or 3") shells. Using the -10 +20 mesh granules (about a 3Fa or 4Fa size).I do also press and corn mine though I am planning to do some granulation with dextrin and test the difference.

I PM'd him about getting some, but never got back to me.

[pyrojig]

you might consider purchasing some charcoal as a reference to yours . I'd say go with some willow and compare it to yours . From the last posts it sounds like your ch is a bit undercooked. This will lead to slow powder . Also when you snap a piece of ch it should be black all the way through, and have a china "tink" sound.

[LambentPyro]

you might consider purchasing some charcoal as a reference to yours . I'd say go with some willow and compare it to yours . From the last posts it sounds like your ch is a bit undercooked. This will lead to slow powder . Also when you snap a piece of ch it should be black all the way through, and have a china "tink" sound.

 

It does have that sound, it is cooked all the way actually, where did you find that it's not undercooked???

 

I have willow charcoal, I've used it in the past, but with 5% dex, so it slowed it down. My charcoal burns just as fast as my willow based BP. All of those part tests are willow charcoal based. But they're the same rate as my homemade whitewood. I'm going to try out true pine soon.

Edited October 27, 2013 by LambentPyrotechnics

[pyrokid]

I don't believe that dextrin slows bp down to the extent that the addition of 5% dextrin will make or break the viability of the powder. Like I said, I make my powder in an undercharged mill and I get perfectly serviceable lift.

[pyrojig]

It does have that sound, it is cooked all the way actually, where did you find that it's not undercooked???

 

I have willow charcoal, I've used it in the past, but with 5% dex, so it slowed it down. My charcoal burns just as fast as my willow based BP. All of those part tests are willow charcoal based. But they're the same rate as my homemade whitewood. I'm going to try out true pine soon.

I was reading one of your posts where it said your ch was brown,and not black . I was assuming you where speaking of a undercooked ch . I only suggested that due to a experience I had cooking shredded up paulownia . It was partially uncooked (coco color) and the performance was reduced to willow speeds, and not the supercharged stuff i was used to . But if your getting completely cooked ch , then I would venture it being a milling issue that is killing your speeds . \

[LambentPyro]

I was reading one of your posts where it said your ch was brown,and not black . I was assuming you where speaking of a undercooked ch . I only suggested that due to a experience I had cooking shredded up paulownia . It was partially uncooked (coco color) and the performance was reduced to willow speeds, and not the supercharged stuff i was used to . But if your getting completely cooked ch , then I would venture it being a milling issue that is killing your speeds . \

Yes, but I also stated it was fully cooked in the topic.

 

 

 

 

Edit: I got balsa wood from Hobby Lobby, and I'll try and make a batch of charcoal out of that and see how it works. It's so lightweight and it clinks just like charcoal!

Edited October 28, 2013 by LambentPyrotechnics

[zAZO9a]

have you tried 75/15/10 it works alot better ..im from florida..the weather there does play a role but not a big one..

[LambentPyro]

have you tried 75/15/10 it works alot better ..im from florida..the weather there does play a role but not a big one..

 

Yes..... My last 10 batches have been 75/15/10.

 

74.6/13.5/11.9 is technically optimal.

[zAZO9a]

ive read i dont know how many books over the years and have been doing this since the 70s and that particular formulation i think if i remember correctly is an old blasting version of the comp.you should try to hook up with fpag down there..they have this shit down to a science..you cant join the guild you have to be invited..but they are a great bunch of peeps..and generally dont mind helping ya out it you have problems figuring thangs out ....good to see a fellow floridian on here..im in in.die.ana now..lol ..its good to know as many ways to make bp as many ways as u can it is regionally variable.. where you live and the season of the year can and will dictate the way you make bp a drying chamber is cheap to make and it snows rains and every damn thing else here some tymes all in the same day.same goes for stars they will absolutly never fn dry in this wet climate without one

[LambentPyro]

ive read i dont know how many books over the years and have been doing this since the 70s and that particular formulation i think if i remember correctly is an old blasting version of the comp.you should try to hook up with fpag down there..they have this shit down to a science..you cant join the guild you have to be invited..but they are a great bunch of peeps..and generally dont mind helping ya out it you have problems figuring thangs out ....good to see a fellow floridian on here..im in in.die.ana now..lol ..its good to know as many ways to make bp as many ways as u can it is regionally variable.. where you live and the season of the year can and will dictate the way you make bp a drying chamber is cheap to make and it snows rains and every damn thing else here some tymes all in the same day.same goes for stars they will absolutly never fn dry in this wet climate without one

 

Yes, I'm aware they're a private club. My residence is not technically Florida, I go there to shoot my shells off.

 

Drying conditions does matter, but regardless, it will still dry, just a matter of time. Unless you leave it out in the rain, that's just being careless. I leave my powder to air dry all spread out. A food dehydrator is what I'm going to begin using for my powder.

[Shadowcat1969]

Make sure the dehydrator you select is NOT one that has the open or semi-open heating element in the bottom. A lot of them have that and powder falling on that would likely be a bad thing.

[LambentPyro]

I'd line the tray anyway with Kraft Paper, unless e powder would fall down, and like you said, it would not be good.

[LambentPyro]

I haven't updated this thread in a while, and I figured I would keep up with whatever I discovered to maybe hear your thoughts.

 

I've been talking to Ned about this and he gave me some suggestions to follow:

-Use Eastern Red Cedar charcoal

-Denatured alcohol w/out a binder or 1-2% of Dextrin with just straight water (that means no diluted alcohol)

-Dry right after granulating

-Wet it enough to make the resins of the charcoal soak in.

 

Since he uses the TLUD, and I use the retort, we could possibly get different results, either better or worse, that depends. As I see it to be somewhat controversial between us, I am not going to say what is better or worse as I am not experienced enough to judge that yet. In fact, I am not comfortable with how TLUD works and I may not switch over. So, I am just going to post results based on my experience (so don't attack me ).

 

 

When I thought about it, I remembered that the shells I built for the 4th of July, a lot of them had different methods of how the lift was applied. Some had just a dixie cup, some had just a cut toilet paper tube hot glued around the shell, a lot had black powder in a single ply paper towel and wrapped with masking tape and taped with tension to the shell, and finally some carried heavy thickness cardboard tubes around the lift pouch.

 

My question after that, is what is the best method of applying lift charges to a shell? Put into the corner of a baggie and twirled and cut and then taped on the shell and wrapped with kraft paper? Not so sure...

 

 

I found an old video of pyro baseball testing from the summer that I forgot about. It had 10% lift and used the whitewood 2x3 (not 2x4, I like to emphasize that I am not making a mistake, ) homemade charcoal that I believed to cause the lift issue. I confined the lift in a single ply paper towel and wrapped with masking tape and taped with tension to the baseball. Right from when it blasted to right when it smacked against the ground, my stopwatch read 9.3 seconds, this indicates that it went well over 300 feet, which is optimal for a 3" inch shell. Want to check the video out? Here ya go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2eQesOw2IU

 

Let me know what you guys have to say, I like when more experienced members provide their advice, it is appreciated very much!

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

Hey lambent. Just at a glance, your milling practices are extremely inefficient. I use 200 1/2" lead balls in my mill and have a pound of perfect BP in 3 hours or so. It shouldn't take that long for that little.

[LambentPyro]

Hey lambent. Just at a glance, your milling practices are extremely inefficient. I use 200 1/2" lead balls in my mill and have a pound of perfect BP in 3 hours or so. It shouldn't take that long for that little.

I recently purchased a new mill. I put a one gallon jar on it with 30 LBS. of media,600 gram batch and 3 hour milling sessions.

[CannonBall]

Actually it's a good idea to use binder when granulating your BP because bigger shells need bigger granules to produce more consistent pressure and since then you didn't use a binder those granules might have fallen apart and started burning too fast, bigger shells have more weight and need more time to excelerate and using too fine lift charge makes it inefficient.

Hope this helped.