Handpressed Whistle Effects?

[AirCowPeacock]

I want to make some daylight fireworks, so besides salutes (especially smoke salutes) and smoke stars; the only other thing I can think of is whistles. I have no press however, and am wondering if there is any way I can make whistle inserts for small shells, 1.5" to 2.5"? I've tried handpressing 70:30 whistle (perc w/ anti-cake) and also 70:30 + 1% RIO into 1/4" x 2" tubes, but the sound was faint. Any advise?

[FlaMtnBkr]

Did you use oil or Vaseline in either whistle mix? I would think that would help consolidate under hand pressure. I have got whistles to work pretty good in the past with only hand pressure. Is this the first time you have ever made whistle mix or have you made a loud whistle in the past with your chemicals? What I have found to make the biggest effect on how loud it is, is how fine the fuel is. Air milled is going to make the best product. Also, which fuel are you using because different mixes can have better sound or more power. Whichitabuggywhip has a good list of different fuels and catalysts and how they rate with sound and power. And a small arbor press can be bought from harbor freight for not a lot of money which will press a small whistle plenty tight.

 

Others claim the perc has a large effect on the sound and power but cheap chinese stuff seems to work good if the fuel is sufficiently fine. So you may also try running some perc thru a mill in case it could be finer.

 

Also, some space in front of the whistle (about 1 ID) seems to help the sound as it gives a space to resonate. A good hard tube also helps. If your not sure about your tube, maybe treat some with wood hardener, which is essentially polyurethane and acetone 50:50.

 

That's all I can think of right now, but I would bet on the fuel not being super fine.

[mikeee]

You can use a rocket blender or coffee grinder to mill the fuel.

[AirCowPeacock]

I think your probably right about the fuel being to coarse. It's coffeemilled NaBenz followed by morter and pestle. I'll buy some airmilled NaBenz and use 1% mineral oil next time. My tubes are the red ones from pyrocreations.

[LTUPyro]

I don't have press, but I had pretty good results using vise to press whistle mix. Coffe milled Na Benzoate works good though, just coffe grind it and screen it through 100# mesh screen to remove any lumps.

 

Here is vise pressed whistle mix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPCyoKmSlOc

Edited July 21, 2013 by LTUPyro

[ExplosiveCoek]

100# is not fine enough, you get more of a hiss and not a scream (like you can notice in your video). I even screened it through 120# and it still wasn't good enough. You'll need really fine 'airfloat' benzoate. That's why I now just buy my potassiumbenz (which is really fine). Saves you a lot of trouble and burned out coffeemill's if you want to make a 1 or 2 kg batch of whistle at once.

 

Also the power of your whistle will vary based on the amount of 'really fine' benzoate you have in your mixture, so if you want to make stable whistle rockets whit home grinded benzoate it will be more difficult to dial them in.

 

Edit:

This is what my whistle sounds like from a big distance:

Edited July 21, 2013 by ExplosiveCoek

[LTUPyro]

100# is not fine enough, you get more of a hiss and not a scream (like you can notice in your video). I even screened it through 120# and it still wasn't good enough. You'll need really fine 'airfloat' benzoate. That's why I now just buy my potassiumbenz (which is really fine). Saves you a lot of trouble and burned out coffeemill's if you want to make a 1 or 2 kg batch of whistle at once.

 

Also the power of your whistle will vary based on the amount of 'really fine' benzoate you have in your mixture, so if you want to make stable whistle rockets whit home grinded benzoate it will be more difficult to dial them in.

 

Edit:

This is what my whistle sounds like from a big distance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta9jUy9JBVc

Yeah, I know my whistle isn't the best. I use chinese perchlorate wich isn't good for whistles.

[Bobosan]

Wouldn't there be a difference in whistle because of tube diameter? 1/4 inch vs. larger?

[FlaMtnBkr]

I'm sure a smaller tube will have an effect on pitch and loudness. But a good whistle can be made in a small tube. Even whistling bottle rockets are pretty good. Smaller tubes should also be easier to press by hand.

 

I have tried 3/8" and 1/2" by hand and like them but 1/4" should work fine for an effect that is closer to the audience.

[pyrojig]

Add a small amount of Ti 3-5% to the 1/4 inserts and your close to the commercial stuff. This will not take away from the whistle effect .

[ExplosiveCoek]

Yeah, I know my whistle isn't the best. I use chinese perchlorate wich isn't good for whistles.

 

I don't really believe that the oxidizer plays an important role, KClO4 is KClO4. I have noticed before that the burnrate is mostly dependend on the particle size of the fuel.

[FlaMtnBkr]

I'm sure it plays some role. There are a lot of well known rocket guys who feel there is a difference. But they are squeezing out every last bit of performance and their motors are on the red line. Some don't even care if it whistles they just want a good fuel. I think it probably makes a difference but for sound I think the fuel size is critical.

 

Edit: dumb phones and their predictive text.

Edited July 22, 2013 by FlaMtnBkr

[ExplosiveCoek]

Jeah to be honest, I don't really have much faith in them.

Your rockets either fly, or they don't. If you have rockets that might work depending on the location of the moon and your luck then you're doing something wrong .

 

I like to trust in verified facts, and what I've seen on passfire is not always that scientific.

[Mumbles]

This is something we might want to suggest to Danny Creagan to include in his whistle tests.

 

While there is no numerical data to my knowledge, there is empirical data that the perchlorate source does matter both for thrust and audible effect. While perchlorate is perchlorate, the impurities from the source (anti-cakes, residual chlorate, etc) are potentially what make the difference. There are also factors of supplied particle size and shape that also may play a role if used as-is out of the barrel.

 

I personally did some testing a while ago on a variety of perchlorate sources, but that was for sodium and calcium contamination, not anything that might make a difference for whistle. Unsurprisingly, the "best" perchlorates had the lowest contamination.

[FlaMtnBkr]

What was the parameter for best? Speed of burn? Whistle performance? Purity of color in stars? All the above?

 

Just curious. I have read some old posts where people say the difference is very small. And others make it sound like you might as well not even use perchlorate if you can't get the high purity stuff that is no longer made. I have a lot of Chinese with anti-cake, HP-140, 10 lbs of Swedish, and even a bunch of old Rx grade Chlorate that is rock hard, that I would like to test one day. I need to get more chlorate as the only other one I have is the Chinese with anti-cake. The perchlorate and chlorate with anti-cake is in a green drum and I think is the stuff service sells. That is also the perchlorate that a well known pyro manufacturer uses in their product so must be decent.

 

I figure the Rx chlorate is probably the most pure though I can't imagine what they used chlorate for in a prescription. I know in the 30s they gave perchlorate to people, but it had some pretty bad side effects and was stopped. It actually caused a rare blood disease that I have but a few grams were given orally at a time and I got the blood disease before I started making pyro. If I were to guess this chlorate is from the 70s or early 80s, is in dark brown glass jars, and is literally rock hard. Hopefully I can get it out of the jars without having to break them.

[gdeputy]

I'm no expert on whistles, but I can share my experience from this past 4th. I decided to try whistle rockets for the first time, and they turned out really well. I used perchlorate and sodium salicylate from skylighter, and followed the process from their site here http://www.skylighte...whistle-mix.asp. The resulting mix worked well in rockets, as well as just pressed into tubes for whistles. The only time I had a problem was when I made a large whistle in a hurry, about 3/4 inch ID, and hand pressed it instead of using the press. It whistled for about 3 seconds, then went boom. I ended up making up to 3lb whistle rockets that were a ton of fun, always using a 12 ton harbor freight hydraulic press ($120) and whistle tooling I made on my lathe.