Flash powder storage

[ribrown]

Hey fellas, I to have a small amount of flash powder that I've had for over a year which unfortunately suffered some moisture intrusion. My question is if I spread it out a little on a sheet of cardboard and let it dry for a week or so will it still be good? I want to make a couple of 1 inch ball shell salutes. The supply also has a few pieces of clay plug debris which fell into it. Very tiny amount. Would that affect its performance? Thanks for any replies

[pyroshell]

What type of flash is it?

[ribrown]

Not sure. Bought it from a vendor at a fireworks club shoot.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

That sounds strange. No one should be selling mixed flash anywhere, especially a club function. I would imagine if anyone found him selling mixed flash he would be asked to stop or leave. Or maybe even kicked out of the club.

 

How did it get clay plug material in it? Almost sounds like it was taken from consumer fireworks.

 

Most flash shouldn't be hygroscopic and pick up water from the atmosphere. If it did that, laying it out in humid air probably won't fix anything. How do you know there is water? Wasn't it in a container?

[Jakenbake]

No amount of mixed flash should ever be stored.

[ribrown]

The clay dust came from a multishot cake which was sitting on top of the container in a metal locker I have. The moisture came from condensation buildup aroumd an air conditioning duct in my basement. Oncr we started using the ac this year and it startef getting hot out, I noticed water dr ipping onto the top of my locker. Water dripped onto the cake and into a cardboard box containing the powder. It was a modest purchase from friend to friend. Left over from shells that wer e being built at the event.

 

But I didn't ask anything about how I obtained it or how clay dust got into it or how watet got into it. I appreciate the concern but all I wanted to know was weather or not I could use it for shell construction? All of my other supplies and instruction have come from reputible sources such as skylighter and firefox.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Well when something seems strange, or unsafe, members are going to ask questions, especially if we need to know more to make an informed answer.

 

Out of curiosity how much flash is it? What kind of container is it stored in? Ziploc bag? How much moisture is in it? Liquid flowing around? Damp and clumping? Hard to tell if it is wet but want to be safe?

 

I would toss it personally but I can easily make more flash. If you really want to use it it's hard to say how much it has degraded. I would put it on top of a piece of cardboard inside a shoe box until it seems dry. Put the box somewhere safe where there are no sparks and you won't forget about it. If it is still a powder once dry then it's probably pretty good. If there are hard clumps use your finger to gently break it apart. Use of a tool would be good but it needs to be non sparking and done gently so there is no friction.

 

At this point try it in a aerial shell. I would read up on flash so you can be safe handling it. You also need to ask yourself how competent your friend is you bought it from. Some people make flash I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Selling made flash, transporting it, and storing it are all dangerous, and quite illegal.

 

Without knowing what it is, and what happened chemically when it got wet, I would toss it and do things the right way. No bang is worth losing a couple fingers.

 

Edit: clay will make it less powerful. The more of it, less power, until the point where it will no longer burn.

Edited June 17, 2013 by FlaMtnBkr

[ribrown]

Well thank you kindly for the help. At the time I removed the container from the locker there was a damp layer on top. I spread it out in a thin layer in a 5 gallon buket bottom that I use as a collecting pan for recieving ball milled meal. I spread it out in a layer that is about 1/4" thick which covered the entire area of the bucket bottom if that gives you an idea of how much. There wete some clumps which I used a small piece of mdf wood to gently break apart. Right now there are still some BB sized clumps left. The amount of clay that got in was about the amount of a pinch of salt (aproximately the amount of salt one could pick up with a finger and thumb pinch).

[alexsocal]

so if i cant ask questions about flash powder whats the point in this forum? i joined to ask about flash, now i feel like maybe i need to go somewhere else. anyone know what forums allow flash talk?

[pyrojig]

Just as a side note and thought, some have used flash coated rice hulls ( which is a wet application ) . So the use of wet flash is not the worst thing in the world, and yes it will dry, and be usable. As far as the source, from what it sounds, the fellow got it from dismantled shells (bombettes etc) . Most likely slow flash. As burn test will revile more on that of course. I would separate out small amounts for testing, and move forward from there when the flash is deemed safe.

[alexsocal]

can anyone point me to a forum that allows discussing flash powder? i would never store it, or mix more than 5-10 grams at a time, and i would never use anything but nitrate or perchlorate.

[Mumbles]

It's not that you're not allowed to talk about it here. If you search around you'll find that is not the case at all. We just prefer/require that it be done in a responsible and intelligent manner.

[alexsocal]

ok so what would you recommend as a really good and safe mix. like i said, i won't store it or use permanganate or magnesium. i only plan on making small batches and won't make large dangerous blow off your hand stuff. here is a picture of what i have and i plan on buying 1 lb of p. perchlorate.

[brimstoned]

As you may have noticed, the consensus 'round these parts is that there is no "safe" flash compositions.

Unfortunately, without knowing what kind of device the mixture is going to be used in, it is difficult to discuss the merits of

various formulations.

[alexsocal]

ill just go else where for answers, its impossible here. Edited July 10, 2013 by alexsocal

[brimstoned]

Imagine someone going into a firearms store and asking the proprietor "what kind of gun should I buy?".

If you were to post what you intended to use the FP for, it would be much easier to offer you relevant advice.

[Seymour]

Alex, I gave you a pretty good answer on chat.

 

What makes you feel you are being treated badly? I really think you just have to change your attitude. Please don't take that badly.

 

You are asking a REALLY, REALLY, REALLY basic question that is asked all the time and is answered many thousands of times on this forum.

 

If you can't spend a few hours doing research then you probably lack the patience to do the thousand hours or so research that you should do before you start playing with something as severely dangerous as flash powder.

 

You want to make ground salutes. You told me already. Please use black powder for this until you have changed your attitude sufficiently to be mature enough to move on to more advanced things.

 

I'm giving you a really kind answer really, and gong out of my way to explain why you are not getting the service you think you deserve. A lot of people would point out that making M-8O's in South California is a great way to land yourself in jail.

 

May I point out that perhaps we just like real fireworks and have no interest in helping you get to jail by making M-8O's? It's a really bad look and since we make explosives here there is a huge incentive to distance ourselves from those who make destructive explosives, or even those who seem to be doing so.

 

You can go across the internet in frustration and try and get information about flash. I'm sure you'll succeed, but I warn you a lot of what is written out there is by people who havent a clue what they are talking about.

 

Anyone careless enough to spoon feed every wanabe salute maker with formulas probably sits in the inexperienced camp themselves. That's the thing Alex, we are not withholding information from you, but nor are we spoon feeding you. "here comes the choo choo train, open wide..."

 

It's like asking for the formula for black powder. If you can't find it out for yourself then you need to find out how, because its fucking easy to find information, and if you are still unsure (which is ok, we all start somewhere) then that is pretty much proof that you are not ready.

 

I'm not saying give up or go away, I'm just saying it how it is. You might think you are ready and want to be ready, but you are not.

 

You have to read more. A LOT

Edited July 11, 2013 by Seymour

[FlaMtnBkr]

He is obviously a fairly young teenager that needs someone to spoon feed him the information. He has no tolerance and is quite impatient like most teenagers are these days. I don't know of a forum that is going to help you make firecrackers when you can't even ask a thought out question. All the information you want/need is here in the forum and just requires a little reading.

 

Here is a safe formula. Be careful and don't blow yer fingers off. Let us know if you want to learn to make quality charcoal at home.

 

70 Charcoal

20 German black aluminum

10 Sulfur

[brimstoned]

I must agree...that is the safest composition I have ever seen; properly milled, it would even be useful in a creamora!

[pyrojig]

@ flamtnbkr

\You forgot the kno3 in your formulation . Also what advise will he get from other forums? There are many out there that will tell you anything but what is safe, and is probably run by several young kids. So take what you read and back it up with sound literature

[brimstoned]

pyrojig...composition sarcasm...

We may need a new term for this...compcasms?...open for suggestions...

[ollie1016]

I must agree...that is the safest composition I have ever seen; properly milled, it would even be useful in a creamora!

 

Bit off topic but I've found that 60% charcoal powder airfloat and 40% kno3 air float ( ball milled) works really well for cremoras! I'm doing alot of work on them at the moment, trying to build up my pyrotechnic knowledge/ techniques and understanding a bit more! I have some flash questions..... I would appreciate a PM if any one is willing for a small conversation. ( I use FP for mini timed reports in my 2" shells and in my 2" shells) I like to think I am a responsible and mature person when it comes to pyrotechnics. Stay safe , - Ollie

[pyrojig]

pyrojig...composition sarcasm...

We may need a new term for this...compcasms?...open for suggestions...

Sounds like a good word for the meaning .

[Mumbles]

Just watch your spelling on that second C. "C" and "G" are pretty close to one another. Pretty quickly you're going from sarcastic compositions to very messy ones.

[brimstoned]

...and possibly loud as well...don't want to upset the neighbors.