CONFIRMED - Dagabu is the injured man

[dagabu]

The best thing anybody can do for me and my family is to continue to be safe and wear your PPE. My greatest reward is the PM that comes from the new guy that says, "Holy schnitt! I just heard about your accident, it really shook me, I am going out right now to get a face shield and welding gloves!"

 

Dave

[pyrogeorge]

Me too dagabu..

I stoped any pyro activities and i will find face shield to continue..

Also i thinking to reduce the ammount of bp from a kilo to 500gr per mill.

[ChuckD]

dagabu,

 

I am a new member here, and I've just completed reading this thread. I am relatively new to building fireworks, and your story is a STRONG cautionary tale to take care. Reading it, I realize that I have been too lax with respect to personal protection equipment, and I have today ordered the three items that you listed links to in post #109, above. I do my best to maintain a clean and 'safe' environment when building, and while I do not at this time mill BP (or anything), I may want to at some point in the future when I am more confident that I know what I need to do it as safely as possible.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience with us here.

 

I send you my sincerest regards and hopes for your continued recovery,

Chuck D

[dagabu]

Thanks Chuck!

 

That is why I am still here, not to be mean and 'yell' at people but to educate. Friction and sparks, make sure they cant happen and your chances of burns diminish greatly, wear PPE and the event of fire will be nothing more than a time to change your shorts.

 

Please remember, there is no way to make pyro safe, you have to provide that for yourself and your surroundings.

[BurritoBandito]

Thank you ChuckD for your contribution to Dag's fundraiser, and for taking personal safety seriously.

[FrankRizzo]

Dag,

 

You mentioned before that the charcoal you were using in the BP was a pretty reactive wood. How "fresh from the retort" was that batch of charcoal? Is it possible that the charcoal component spontaneously combusted when it got exposed to atmospheric oxygen after being milled?

 

I've heard of reactive charcoal beginning to smoulder days after it was pyrolyzed. In the case I'm referring to, the charcoal cooker had been sealed up after the run, and then the charcoal was moved immediately to a sealed 5gal pail after the barrel had cooled because the weather was damp and he didn't want it absorbing too much moisture from the air. About 3 days later, the guy opened the pail, walked away to get a meat grinder to process the charcoal sticks, and when he came back, there was a bit of smoke coming from the bucket and a few embers had started burning.

[dagabu]

The charcoal was 100% Paulownia from Algenco, it was over a year old and was milled to dust by myself a week before and stored in a 5 gallon bucket in a few 2 gallon zip lock bags. It has been exposed to oxygen several times for prolonged periods of time before I attempted to mill it.

 

Good question but I don't see any issues with the charcoal being the culprit.

[dagabu]

My family accepted the gift of attending PGI convention this year at Mason City at no cost to us, the question I pose to my family here is do I "get back on the horse" or do I take up photography as my part at PGI?

All I ask is that you be kind with your answers, no trolls are needed to reply, this is a constructive conversation.

[BurritoBandito]

Dag, that is going to be entirely up to YOU. it's a matter of personal comfort and peace of mind. You are going to have to assess your feelings on the matter and come to terms with what you think is the right decision. I would love to see you making rockets again, as I know it is passion of yours, but if you do not feel comfortable doing so then please don't. I know that you are a dedicated pyro, but take the psychological aspect of returning into consideration when making your decision. Nervousness can cloud otherwise good judgement and cause knee-jerk reactions. Discuss it with your real family and chew on it for a bit. I think whatever decision you make is the right one.

 

Edit: I edited this post three times, yet I am still unhappy with my inability articulate my feelings on this. I think there is a certain limitation to our ability to fully express our thoughts/experiences. Unfortunately, in this discussion that qualia seems to apply.

Edited June 17, 2014 by BurritoBandito

[hindsight]

dagabu,
I am in no position to give you advice. But 3 posts up you said, "Please remember, there is no way to make pyro safe...". This is an insane hobby, and if we don't learn from our experiences, we are condemned. You were engaging in what from all standards was normal pyrotechnic activity. Your attitude has made you not only endure the tragedy, but also prevail because of the spirit in you; nevertheless, a second tragedy would be hard for all of us to endure. No matter how safe we try to be, there are lapses and flukes.

 

Granted this is coming from an unrepentant addict.

 

Also, from a medical standpoint, how many times can a region be grafted and how many donor sites are left. In my country's military, people with previous extensive burns are exempt. I don't know what you situation is, and wish you to you maintain your privacy. But a conversation with your doctor might impact your decision.

 

Photography is a great hobby combining artistic and technical abilities. Everybody loves to have their pyro activities archived because it represents so much effort and time to create a brief flash of beauty.

 

The top engineers in the space programs didn't get to fly, but their contributions are what made it truly possible and (relatively) safe for the cosmonauts and astronauts. May God bless your decision.

 

--hindsight

[dagabu]

Dag, that is going to be entirely up to YOU. it's a matter of personal comfort and peace of mind. You are going to have to assess your feelings on the matter and come to terms with what you think is the right decision. I would love to see you making rockets again, as I know it is passion of yours, but if you do not feel comfortable doing so then please don't. I know that you are a dedicated pyro, but take the psychological aspect of returning into consideration when making your decision. Nervousness can cloud otherwise good judgement and cause knee-jerk reactions. Discuss it with your real family and chew on it for a bit. I think whatever decision you make is the right one.

 

Edit: I edited this post three times, yet I am still unhappy with my inability articulate my feelings on this. I think there is a certain limitation to our ability to fully express our thoughts/experiences. Unfortunately, in this discussion that qualia seems to apply.

 

 

dagabu,

I am in no position to give you advice. But 3 posts up you said, "Please remember, there is no way to make pyro safe...". This is an insane hobby, and if we don't learn from our experiences, we are condemned. You were engaging in what from all standards was normal pyrotechnic activity. Your attitude has made you not only endure the tragedy, but also prevail because of the spirit in you; nevertheless, a second tragedy would be hard for all of us to endure. No matter how safe we try to be, there are lapses and flukes.

 

Granted this is coming from an unrepentant addict.

 

Also, from a medical standpoint, how many times can a region be grafted and how many donor sites are left. In my country's military, people with previous extensive burns are exempt. I don't know what you situation is, and wish you to you maintain your privacy. But a conversation with your doctor might impact your decision.

 

Photography is a great hobby combining artistic and technical abilities. Everybody loves to have their pyro activities archived because it represents so much effort and time to create a brief flash of beauty.

 

The top engineers in the space programs didn't get to fly, but their contributions are what made it truly possible and (relatively) safe for the cosmonauts and astronauts. May God bless your decision.

 

--hindsight

 

I think you have incredible insights into the mental and physical implications that are related to this hobby. I agree with my past statements and I also understand that there is risk, in fact, I think I understand that more than most. I dont know how many times one can be grafted but here in the USA, there is no exemption to past injuries, they can and do happen. As far as donor sites go, while I was in, there was a guy that was grafted from the same site and will be harvested again and again until he has all his grafting done. Skin is amazing and even though mine is ugly, it feels pretty darn normal for being from my thighs and back.

 

The question before you today is your gut feeling and so far you have shared that with me gracefully yet powerfully. I do love photography and would be happy to change to taking pictures of pyro instead but there is the 'pull' to make rockets... "Granted this is coming from an unrepentant addict." Well said.

[schroedinger]

I think everyone hear can understand how you are feeling at the moment, I would imagine it must be horrible to be catched between those oppositions.

I had an quite similar momentum when i was living in Australia on the countryside. I love fishing but there is no fish in the countryside of Oz so i had to find a way to work around it, first couple months everything wen't ok, but the urge started to grow, that was the point when my fishing equipment stash also starting growing (i had no gear there), first a rod and real, some hooks and sinkers. Next a couple hooks and so on. Nothing big, just a couple things to get started with. After some time I had all I desired and the tackle wouldn't give any satisfaction anymore. So i talked to my new boss (from which i knew he is a fishing freak) when he was going to do a trip and he borrowed me a company car and said you pay the fuel and have a nice weekend at the sea. Well than i was back in business, and knew it was god to wait but do something in this hobby if i can't go for it.

 

So you allready have the most equipment to both things (build and photo) if i understand your reply right. Maybe the best thing for you would be to take it easy and try out both parts.

So go for the photo shooting but also talk to someone who you know that he is at the building area and work together with him, if you feel you really need a pyro fix now. This way you could save on the equipment you would need to bring, see both sides of the world and can start to go get used to doing pyro again (If I understand you right thats what you want to know if it is still the rigzt thing for you) but can back off safely at any moment, without being tied to everything you brought by.

Edited June 17, 2014 by schroedinger

[MrB]

 

My family accepted the gift of attending PGI convention this year at Mason City at no cost to us, the question I pose to my family here is do I "get back on the horse" or do I take up photography as my part at PGI?

All I ask is that you be kind with your answers, no trolls are needed to reply, this is a constructive conversation.

 

There is only one way for me to answer this. I have to let you in on somewhat of a secret. When i was somewhat past 20 years old, i managed to have an "accident" with a primary explosive. To this day i carry around plastic shrapnel, and i don't mean in a necklace. After that incident i pretty much quit handling HE, and i haven't made any detonators at all since then. Commercial detonators are harder to get hold of, then it is making your own, but i feel uncomfortable even thinking about it, much less actually working with it, so, i don't do it.

What i'm going for with this is simple. You KNOW if you wanna get back in to pyro, or not. Don't ask us. We will support you regardless of what you decide.

 

That said, i actually think you already know what you want to do. I might be reading to much in to things, but thats the feeling i get.

B!

[hindsight]

Just because someone has a gut feeling, or because it feels right does not necessarily make it the right decision.
Good dagabu shows true wisdom by seeking input from members of an understanding community.

The wisest ruler in history once said, "For you should wage war with sound guidance-- victory comes with many counselors." (And Solomon repeated, "Plans are established by seeking advice; so if you wage war, obtain guidance.") Both war and pyro have their costs.
"For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost..."

But we all agree the ultimate decision lies with the pyrotechnician. We all take risks for the sake of enjoyment. Risk = Probability X Severity. But are there equally pleasurable activities for a given individual with less attendant risk?

[dagabu]

I love all the answers I am getting from you, it helps others new to this hobby as well realize that there is a cost to using energetic compounds.

[MrB]

Good dagabu shows true wisdom by seeking input from members of an understanding community.

In that case i sense a slight misjudgment when it comes to the community he selected to "ask" for input. Quite frankly we are heavily biased, and short of someone who already blew all their limbs clear of, everyone would get nothing but supportive cheers if they said they were going back to pyro.

 

But we all agree the ultimate decision lies with the pyrotechnician. We all take risks for the sake of enjoyment. Risk = Probability X Severity. But are there equally pleasurable activities for a given individual with less attendant risk?

This is a call we all did. Long before we had any accidents, i would hope. I'll stand by my first statement. If it feels right, sure, go back to it. If not. Don't force anything, it's supposed to be a pleasurable experience, not to mention that a forced activity is something you want to get over with as fast as possibly, which increases the risk of bad habits...

 

I love all the answers I am getting from you, it helps others new to this hobby as well realize that there is a cost to using energetic compounds.

Cost... There sure is. On the upside, every now and then you find a great community who welcomes you, if not as a soul-mate, then at least as a brother / sister.

As always. It's your call. We'll be here and support you, what ever you decide.

B!

[hindsight]

"In that case i sense a slight misjudgment when it comes to the community he selected to "ask" for input. Quite frankly we are heavily biased, and short of someone who already blew all their limbs clear of, everyone would get nothing but supportive cheers if they said they were going back to pyro." -- MrB.

 

MrB,

You are absolutely correct in assuming that there will be a bias in the pyro community in favor of continuing the pursuit of pyrotechnics, even in the face of a prior accidental injury from pyro. There are yet a couple points to note.

For one thing, we are a community that understands both the dangers and pleasures and can better make a cost/benefit analysis of continuing. And we will make that analysis with a little bit of personal knowledge of the person involved. He is someone well regarded, so we give our best input.

Moreover, if you read my two posts above carefully, you will recognize that I do not give a wholehearted endorsement to continuing this hobby, despite my poor self example. Yes, this flies in the face of a presumed bias.

 

In any event, MrB, your support for a fellow pyro is appreciated. Someday if I ask your advice, my friend, I hope you will be brutally honest and advocate the path of greatest safety, if that is what you deemed best for me.

--hindsight

Edited June 18, 2014 by hindsight

[MrB]

In any event, MrB, your support for a fellow pyro is appreciated. Someday if I ask your advice, my friend, I hope you will be brutally honest and advocate the path of greatest safety, if that is what you deemed best for me.

I got bits of plastic embedded in my left hand, some of it even in the bone... And i'm still doing pyro. If you ever ask me, i'll tell you what i tell everyone else. Do what feels right. If you had any sense, you'd quit while ahead, but i never did...

 

Cheers ;- )

B!

[DontTreadOnMe76]

Hello everyone

 

Reading through this thread has prompted me to make an account so I figured it would be a good place for my first post.

 

First off I will say that I am glad that Mr. Dagabu is alive and well and that my heart goes out to him and his family for having endured such a hardship. I cannot express the sympathy I feel and I will pray for your continued recovery. I was burned many years ago and I am lucky to only bear a single faint scar from 2nd degree burns that covered my face and arms. Reading of your experience has certainly humbled me. I was thinking about ordering some components to begin making some simple BP fountains etc. but now I am seriously questioning doing it until I have read further into it and have acquired the proper safety gear. I will hang around here in the meantime.

 

John

[ddewees]

Welcome John.

[dagabu]

John,

 

Just Dave, nothing formal like Mr. Dagabu please.

 

Hey there fellow survivor! Glad you have recovered and have only a spot to show for it. Thank you for your best wishes, I certainly accept your ability to sympathize with the trials BUT there is joy and thankfulness in my heart, I am not weighed down with depression or guilt, my family here has pulled me through this crazy year and even though I will fight like cats and dogs with them here online, I would gladly lay down my life to save any one of them.

 

Come and learn from them, become part of the family, make rockets and enjoy the cookies!

 

Dave

[DontTreadOnMe76]

Thanks for the welcome guys!

 

I really look forward to being a part of the community.

[BurritoBandito]

Dag, your perseverance and optimism are both admirable traits.

[dagabu]

BB, it's your fault!!! LOL! You didnt even know it but you alone got us moving towards getting this last piece of recovery past us. Thank you!

[BurritoBandito]

That's cool to hear and I appreciate the flattery. I'm really glad that I could help organize the fundraiser, but all credit goes to those who have been kind enough to make a donation.

 

P.S. Don't try and use me as a scapegoat