Someone in MN had a Booboo

[NightHawkInLight]

In regards to the last sentance by Nighthawkinlight...

 

Communication across different agencies and jurisdictions is not as good as you think. We repond so quickly to emergency scenes that we usually have little or no warning about potential hazards unless they implied by the person who called 911.

 

I know, I do understand that it's not likely that those who first arrive on scene would have any information, especially if they're not within the fire department. My point is that a lack of communication within emergency services should not be something that a civilian should be held accountable for if they have already informed everyone to whom they have a legal obligation.

 

Edit: And I should also say, so long as they inform emergency services when they do arrive of any hazards that are currently in the area, assuming they are able.

Edited May 25, 2013 by NightHawkInLight

[SekndAmendment]

I can assure you they weren't making articles for sale on the black market. The news people were just reporting what they were told by the fire chief, who (I learn from someone local) wasn't even there on the day it happened, and they probably asked him leading questions, took his "well it might have been" answer and reported it as fact. The guys were members of a club that has a shoot this weekend - probably they were getting a few items ready for it.

 

I had wondered if they were getting ready for a Memorial Day shoot or not. It seemed to me that the only reason to have that much would either be if you intend to sell it or are preparing for a large shoot. I'm glad to hear they weren't selling. That would have been unfortunate for them as we'll as any others involved in the hobby in their area. I wish reporters were more judicious in their reporting.

 

Regardless of how information is supposed to be handled, we're talking about government agencies here. They're not exactly the poster child for interdepartmental cooperation and efficiency. I sincerely doubt the first responders had any information when they arrived on scene besides the address and that there was a burn victim. All I meant is that the suspicion is justifiable even if there was no crime.

 

My guess is the charges levied at the two involved probably stem from their evasiveness and lack of cooperation. Some of the articles that I read are saying that they denied any knowledge of what had happened even as they sprayed water from a garden hose onto smoldering ground. Nowhere does it say they were honest, cooperating, and forthright with information. I'm sure that's why they were arrested. If the first words out of their mouths were, "Yeah we're licensed, have the proper magazines and safety protocols and are just getting ready for an upcoming Memorial Day shoot when this unfortunate accident happened. What information do you need from me? Search warrants? Don't bother. I'll take you in and show you around myself." then I'm sure this wouldn't be such big news. There is no criminal intent there. It all feels like they tried to play it down and pretend nothing was going on, to either hide something or cover their asses. At least that's the impression this article gives:

 

http://forestlaketimes.com/2013/05/22/one-hurt-two-arrested-following-explosion/

 

But then again, we all know how accurate the reporting has been...

 

Like I said earlier, I hope it all works out. And I wish Dagabu and his family a speedy recovery. This kind of stuff affects more than just the guy that got burned.

[psyco_1322]

I was wondering the same thing about the computers, like who has 12 computers just laying around their house?

 

And they report the making of "2-3in" shells, when there is clearly some 5"? hemis setting on that table. Wonder what's going to happen to that WASP?

[mike_au]

My guess is the charges levied at the two involved probably stem from their evasiveness and lack of cooperation. Some of the articles that I read are saying that they denied any knowledge of what had happened even as they sprayed water from a garden hose onto smoldering ground. Nowhere does it say they were honest, cooperating, and forthright with information. I'm sure that's why they were arrested. If the first words out of their mouths were, "Yeah we're licensed, have the proper magazines and safety protocols and are just getting ready for an upcoming Memorial Day shoot when this unfortunate accident happened. What information do you need from me? Search warrants? Don't bother. I'll take you in and show you around myself." then I'm sure this wouldn't be such big news. There is no criminal intent there. It all feels like they tried to play it down and pretend nothing was going on, to either hide something or cover their asses. At least that's the impression this article gives:

 

That is one approach. You might want to have a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc to get another point of view.

 

I was wondering the same thing about the computers, like who has 12 computers just laying around their house?

 

Well I have at least 9 in the house at the moment, there might be another one or two out in the shed and I chucked quite a few out when I moved house a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure Dag works in IT or at the very least is heavily involved in it as a side project.

[NightHawkInLight]

Seknd, you're making a lot of assumptions at the expense of people that many of us here know personally.

[pyrokid]

12 computers? Must be doing something illegal.

 

The media stories are appalling.

 

I hope dag is recovering well.

[marks265]

I wish reporters were more judicious in their reporting.

 

 

My guess is the charges levied at the two involved probably stem from their evasiveness and lack of cooperation. Some of the articles that I read are saying that they denied any knowledge of what had happened even as they sprayed water from a garden hose onto smoldering ground. Nowhere does it say they were honest, cooperating, and forthright with information. I'm sure that's why they were arrested. If the first words out of their mouths were, "Yeah we're licensed, have the proper magazines and safety protocols and are just getting ready for an upcoming Memorial Day shoot when this unfortunate accident happened. What information do you need from me? Search warrants? Don't bother. I'll take you in and show you around myself." then I'm sure this wouldn't be such big news. There is no criminal intent there. It all feels like they tried to play it down and pretend nothing was going on, to either hide something or cover their asses. At least that's the impression this article gives:

 

http://forestlaketim...wing-explosion/

 

But then again, we all know how accurate the reporting has been...

 

 

From the above article:

"Gustafson approached the first officer on scene saying “I got burned” repeatedly.

Walsh and another man on scene said they had no idea what caused the burns.

After medical and fire personnel arrived, Gray was found near a single-stall garage spraying at smoke with a garden hose. He said he did not know what happened.

The parties on scene were separated and interviewed. Walsh hesitated to provide information until he was told it was a matter of public safety. He then mentioned fireworks and black powder."

I think it could be in context to easily perceive a wrong thought here. I would like to think that they weren't denying anything. They might have been working on other projects and do not know exactly what caused the accident that Dave had. I also think that bad reporting, once again, twists what really happened. I am sure these guys were really freaked out and didn't exactly answer questions very well.

Some people (including Dag) know that I'm not exactly fond of him, but that doesn't mean I'm an ill wisher either. Some of the talk here is about as good as the reporting that has been printed. Let's just hope that Dave will be OK and that a lot of this will get righteously sorted out once law enforcement has a better idea what they walked into. I'm sure that the law enforcement people also freaked our that day too.

We are all speculating right know because this is all we can do. Waiting for the real story takes time. Forums are good (healthy) for opinions so we can't be jumping on each other either, especially when we don't know what anybody is talking about or exactly who is right or wrong.

Mark

[marks265]

That is a weird ass copy paste problem and I can't edit it.

[SekndAmendment]

[/size]

 

That is one approach. You might want to have a look at this:

 

I hate you for playing on my YouTube video addiction by forcing me to watch that 48 minute video haha. You make a fantastic point there (or at least the video does) and that'll influence how I interact with the police in the future. That video was great.

 

The only response I have is that when police and paramedics showed up and started asking questions, they weren't investigating a crime at all. They were there to help Dagabu. If a friend of mine came to my house and was injured that severely by something I built I wouldn't hesitate to give every ounce of information I had to the paramedics and police. Maybe that's wrong of me, who knows? But my superficial and uninformed opinion based on bad reporting and incomplete facts, is that they withheld information from the police and that evasive and deceptive attitude is what resulted in their arrest and the phony charges. Many police officers are arrogant jerks and when you insult their authority they retaliate. It's immature, unnecessary, and potentially illegal. But for them it's a power struggle and if you don't stroke their ego something like this happens.

[pdfbq]

Those are all assumptions

[SekndAmendment]

Those are all assumptions

 

I openly admitted as much in my post. What's your point? This is an internet forum...opinions abound.

[Peret]

They clearly haven't visited Dagabu's house and confiscated his computer, because he left it logged in on Passfire last weekend and it's still logged in a week later. But let's not speculate on things we know nothing about, in case we give some hostile authority an idea that hasn't occurred to them yet.

[marks265]

Talk is showing up on passfire that Dag was on the bad end of a cement mixer while turning it on to unload black powder. Everything is still sketchy at best but at least something is starting to become public. Any info for any accident, at the height of pyro season especially, is worth an early warning.

[dagabu]

I hacked this site and all I can say is boys will be boys! Thanks for the well wishes. But as the video says "thank you for asking but we are not commenting". Play safe! PG

[Arthur]

Good to see you back! Best wishes for a reasonable recovery.

[Carbon796]

He's not quite back yet, I'm pretty sure that's his better half. But I do agree - best wishes ! to both of you.

 

- Rich

[Dean411]

A note of some comments up here

 

1. I have about 8 broken desktop computers here I snag parts out of to fix family members computers

Along with a working desktop also have 1 broken laptop and 3 working , mine , my wifes and my sons. So thats 12 computers plus

My wife works from a computer her work sent here so thats 13 computers. ( I must be up to no good).

 

2. I was recently in a car accident because the guy that hit me was driving without his lights on, it happened so

Dam fast that all I could tell the cop at the scene was I DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED I was driving then I was under this telephone pole.

 

The media with the best Hype wins!!!!!

 

Best to all of them I hope it never happens to anyone else (especially me)

 

Dean

[dagabu]

I just read this for the first time, please allow me to comment on some of the speculation.

 

Computers were taken, none of them mine. Nothing was ever sold, ever. It was indeed a ball mill, the cause of the spark is not known, there was no investigation and every version of "what really happened" is speculation only. There was NO explosion, it was BP meal (green) burning in a cement mixer style ball mill.

 

The reason that there was no information from anybody is that we have the right to remain silent, I still understand and practice my rights to that effect. I am happy to speak about my burns and recovery but will not comment about anybody involved other than myself.

 

Nothing nefarious or villainous ever took place nor anything stupid, as both Ned Gorski and Danny Cregan (two friends and well respected members in the pyro community) have published, "So by the grace of God go I." Everyone reading needs to understand one thing clearly, we are family, each one of us. If one falls, it will hurt us all.

 

As my wife said while I was intubated in CCU, "I hacked this site and all I can say is boys will be boys! Thanks for the well wishes. But as the video says "thank you for asking but we are not commenting". Play safe! PG"

But by the grace of God...

[hindsight]

Amen. There but by the grace of God go we all.