Someone in MN had a Booboo

[marks265]

Anybody know these people?

 

http://www.bringmethenews.com/2013/05/18/a-boom-leads-to-burns-and-a-bust-for-illegal-fireworks-in-central-minn/

[mikeee]

Several of the guys involved in the accident are members of passfire.com.

One of the guys involved in the accident was Timothy Gray.

[NightHawkInLight]

Well that's disheartening. I wonder if there were actually any crimes committed or if the police just assume there were and arrested them on assumption. Even the ATF agent I was interviewed by in my licensing interview, and the head agent in charge of the explosives division when I called their headquarters had to be educated as to what actually was and was not legal for a non licensed person to do according to the orange book.

[marks265]

Several of the guys involved in the accident are members of passfire.com.

One of the guys involved in the accident was Timothy Gray.

 

Sounds like Dag is involved too? I haven't seen him around. hmmmmm.

[NightHawkInLight]

I sure hope not, he has young kids I believe. To be arrested for this stuff...This planet is so screwed up.

[pyrokid]

I wish a speedy recovery and no legal trouble to those involved. Nighthawk, I echo your sentiments. I drove past Viking blvd a few weeks back for a tournament. That is weird stuff.

[Peret]

I have learned that Dagabu is in hospital following an accident at the weekend, and likely to remain there for a few weeks. Whether this is related is unconfirmed at the moment. Nobody involved is talking about it while the legal and insurance implications are being worked out.

[Peret]

Update: local CBS affiliate:

Police say David Michael Walsh, Timothy Gray and a third man – who is in critical condition – were building homemade fireworks out of a home and a backyard shed in a property about 30 miles north of St. Paul in Wyoming. Walsh and Gray have both charged with possessing and storing an incendiary device. And charges are pending for the unidentified third man, who suffered 1st- and 2nd-degree burns which cover 40 percent of his body.

[leedrill]

Wether it's involved or not is very hard to hear about dag and the other two this hobby is our passion and I remember some one on here said pyros are usually like minded in that we enjoy taking calculated risks but I hope all read this when calculating these risks we must be vidulent with our safety as I'm sure if there is a connection between these three they would be more experienced than some and yet still these things happen we must not get complacent with our safety

My heart goes out to there well being and quick recovery of health and liberty

Edited May 22, 2013 by leedrill

[dan999ification]

Oh, I'll say nothing as I can't find the words.

 

I hope the injured (30) heals well and all involved are treated fairly.

 

Dan.

Edited May 22, 2013 by dan999ification

[NightHawkInLight]

There are some really lousy days that these guys have in front of them. I don't know what to offer besides prayers at this point.

[NightHawkInLight]

If anyone has any of Dag's contact information I would appreciate a PM.

 

Edit: I have it. Thanks.

Edited May 23, 2013 by NightHawkInLight

[pyroman2498]

Whether or not it was dag , he has my prayer.

[psyco_1322]

"and there was a small explosion in the home due to the manufacturing of illegal mortar-style fireworks in the garage."

 

Does that make any sense to anyone? Was it in the home, or the garage?

 

Someone else must have called the police, I wouldn't think they did, not over some 1st degree burns.

[NightHawkInLight]

There are pictures of their setup on tables in the yard in other articles. Just reading through some of them side my side really does show how little the media cares about printing the truth. It's all about writing the most catchy words in the least amount of time for them. Disgraceful.

[Bobosan]

It's not about factual reporting of news, it's about creating news to fit the agenda of a personal reporters viewpoint or the media outlet as a whole.

 

Not only is it disgraceful, but also a major disservice to "we, the people".

[mikeee]

This is an easy way for the city/county to make some money off of these guys.

Even if they didn't break the law, they will be tied up in the courts for month's.

The lawyers make money, the courts make money, and you have to finance all of these worthless smucks.

The city will be sending these guys a bill for the hazmat team cleaning out his garage.

The legal bills will run a minimum of $100,000.00 dollars by the time it is settled.

They say the courts have a back-log but that is lie, they are looking for any kind of legal action for city/county income.

I have a friend that works for one of the county courts and she told me they are milking everyone that goes to court.

The judges spend maybe two hours a day in the courthouse. (What a racket)

[marks265]

They weren't doing much of anything.

 

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/05/20/illegal-fireworks-factory-created-with-internet-help/

[Bobosan]

Felony charges are a bit absurd.

[pyrokid]

I called up wcco to see if they might run a proper story about it.

[Mumbles]

This is how courts work. They're going to charge you initially with the harshest thing imaginable, which will later be reduced to something more reasonable or completely dropped so that it looks like they're working with you or doing you a favor.

 

I still wish these individuals the best. There has been some talk of a fundraiser on passfire for at least the injured, if not all parties involved.

[SekndAmendment]

I like the idea of a fundraiser to help the injured man but maybe let each pay his own legal costs if they were actually doing something illegal. Part of being a responsible hobbyist is knowing and following the local laws. I don't want to be a jerk or anything, but put yourself in the shoes of the responding emergency personnel. They get a call about a burn accident, show up and see a guy covered in flash burns from BP lying a building stuffed to the rafters with oxidizers, explosive compounds, mortar tubes, packing materials, and 12 computers (who the freak has 12 computers anyway!?). You kind of have no choice but to call the police as it looks pretty shady from an outside perspective...whether it's justified or not, it's clearly sufficient to generate a reasonable suspicion. I'm not familiar with the laws in their area so I don't even know if they were in fact doing something illegal. The news reports seemed to think so, but they're ridiculously unreliable with today's standards of journalism.

 

One thing I was curious about is if they were actually selling their fireworks. The news articles keep using buzzwords like "Illegal Operation, Black Market, Manufacturing" to make it seem as if they were running a profitable business under the table and in spite of the local laws. Does anybody know if they were selling? If they were building for personal use I'm sure felony charges will be dropped. Hope it all works out in the end.

[Peret]

I can assure you they weren't making articles for sale on the black market. The news people were just reporting what they were told by the fire chief, who (I learn from someone local) wasn't even there on the day it happened, and they probably asked him leading questions, took his "well it might have been" answer and reported it as fact. The guys were members of a club that has a shoot this weekend - probably they were getting a few items ready for it.

[NightHawkInLight]

I like the idea of a fundraiser to help the injured man but maybe let each pay his own legal costs if they were actually doing something illegal. Part of being a responsible hobbyist is knowing and following the local laws.

It's not possible to know for sure whether or not you are safe from the law when you're building fireworks as a hobbyist, even if you're licensed as these men are. Laws around explosives and pyrotechnics, especially on state and local levels are intentionally vague so that they can be stretched to fit circumstances as needed and/or desired. This is a prime example of that if the articles are correct in the charges that have so far been leveled. These men were likely perfectly legal in building fireworks as they were, and yet they weren't charged with illegally building fireworks, they were charged with unrelated incendiary and explosives crimes that were made with the intent of regulating destructive devices, not artistic ones. Those charges shouldn't stick if they get a lawyer that knows his stuff, but that's besides the point. There are more than 10,000 felonies on the books in the US. If law enforcement doesn't like what you're doing, be it legal or not, they can get you for something if they really try, or at minimum charge you with something that will ruin you financially.

 

As for the emergency personnel, when applying for an explosives license it is a requirement before it is issued that the local fire marshal is informed of your location and the storage that is on site, and any other hazardous materials you may have. The ATF will not issue the license until that has been done. If the fire marshal did his job of making a note of those things emergency personnel should have been aware of what may be on site.

[nater]

In regards to the last sentance by Nighthawkinlight...

 

Communication across different agencies and jurisdictions is not as good as you think. We repond so quickly to emergency scenes that we usually have little or no warning about potential hazards unless they implied by the person who called 911.