Pyrotechnics guide(App, work in progress)

[Sinken]

Hi!

 

(I hope this is the right category, if it's not, sorry)

 

 

For a couple of months now, a friend and I have been working on an application for WP8, Android and iOS.

The app is quite similar to the forum's [Formula database](lenke), i.e. an encyclopedia of some sort. At the moment it contains about 100 compositions and 25 chemicals, but we're working on adding more [."]http://pastebin.com/dmSL1tXd ]

 

Other features include:

- Commenting and rating compositions and chemicals.

- Add them to favourites for easy access.

- Selecting the chemicals you have available, and getting a list of compositions that you can make with them.

- A few guides.

 

The main goal of the app is to make it easier for both newbies and oldtimers to find new compositions, read about them etc. while making sure everything is as safe as possible.

 

Safety is our number one priority, and everything should therefore be as up to date as possible whenever you open the app. If someone reports a mistake (or we discover one), we will fix it, and update the information immediately. This wouldn't constitute a new version of the app, so no need to wait for approval from Google play, the Apple App store, or the Windows Phone Store.

 

In addition, the app will include guides on labeling chemicals according to regulations.

 

The app is not a project to make money, but rather to contribute to the pyro society. Nonetheless, there will be a free and a paid for version. This is because we have to pay around 225$ (I believe) to publish the app, and losing lots of money (we're high school students) on a project we've spent 150-200 hours on (so far) isn't that fun. We still expect to lose money on this, but would like to recoup some of the cost.

What the differences between free and paid will be, isn't decided yet, and we're open for suggestions, which brings me to the purpouse of this thread.

 

We're making this app for you, and it would therefore be stupid not to ask you. Do any of you have any input? Anything you think we should add to it? Maybe something that should be changed, or is unnecessary? We will be happy for any kind of feedback, both positive and negative.

 

We have no idea when the app will be published yet, as there still is a lot to do (writing guides, writing about chemicals, etc.), but realistically, within a couple of months.

Anyway, if there are any questions, fire away, I'll gladly answer them.

 

Screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/lWXGL

Regards

Sinken

 

(Ps: On previous forums I've been on, the moderators have been quite strict, so just to clarify, I have gotten the premission to post this)

Edited May 21, 2013 by Sinken

[psyco_1322]

Sounds like a promising piece of work. I can see it being a useful tool for sure. I don't know how many times I would have liked to share a formula but just don't have it available to post.

 

One thing, on your composition list, under "Lift".... I don't think the golden powders or H3 should be listed as that. H3 is a burst powder, far from something suitable for lift. Golden powder is also not something to be lifting shells with, and is really not a widely used composition for pyro. I think the one thing that should be listed is black powder.

 

Excuse me if I missed this, but will there be a section on the app where we can input and store our own list of formulas, or submit formulas to the public list?

[marks265]

You might want to learn how to spell and write. It would be much more believable. I would start by using a lot more of the letter"z". Free stuff would be content that is easily obtainable and paid subscription for information that is harder to find and important images for some content.

 

Mark

[Sinken]

One thing, on your composition list, under "Lift".... I don't think the golden powders or H3 should be listed as that. H3 is a burst powder, far from something suitable for lift. Golden powder is also not something to be lifting shells with, and is really not a widely used composition for pyro. I think the one thing that should be listed is black powder.

 

In the app, blackpowder is listed under both, but I'll correct the two others. I've taken a lot of the info from Pyroguide, and I think they're listed as lift there.

 

Excuse me if I missed this, but will there be a section on the app where we can input and store our own list of formulas, or submit formulas to the public list?

 

Submitting to the public will of course be possible, and we're working on a tool that will make this easier for you.

 

You might want to learn how to spell and write. It would be much more believable. I would start by using a lot more of the letter"z". Free stuff would be content that is easily obtainable and paid subscription for information that is harder to find and important images for some content.

 

Mark

 

Yeah, it got a little late yesterday I'll correct the text.

 

Edit: Unless you mean the text in the app? In that case, everything will be corrected before release. We haven't really focused on that yet.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Sinken

[Sinken]

Sounds like a promising piece of work. I can see it being a useful tool for sure. I don't know how many times I would have liked to share a formula but just don't have it available to post.

 

We willl probably make a website for the app, so you can find a compostition in the app, and press "share", and get a link to the composition on the website.

 

Edit: Tried to correct the first post, should be less spelling errors and better grammar in general.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Sinken

[psyco_1322]

I think he was referring to your spelling of oxidizer. It is with a "z" not a "s".

[Sinken]

Aight, I'll correct it. "z" is a very rarely used in my native language, but as I said, before release I'll have someone who's better than me in English to correct everything. Edited May 21, 2013 by Sinken

[ollie1016]

I think it's a great idea. You should deffinately charge for it. It's your work and if you've put in hours you deserve some payback! I wouldn't charge over £1. Good luck guys!

[Sinken]

Golden powder is also not something to be lifting shells with

 

Are you completly sure about this? Pyroguide says otherwise. http://web.archive.org/web/20101222003504/http://pyroguide.com/index.php?title=Golden_Powder

 

"The heat of combustion is 5% higher and the gas volume produced is 10% greater than an equivalent amount of black powder."

[Bobosan]

 

"The heat of combustion is 5% higher and the gas volume produced is 10% greater than an equivalent amount of black powder."

 

I think your app is a worthwhile project and a handy one to have on the Android phone.

 

Too hard a lift using Golden powder would be the issue, I think. For breaks it may work just fine. I just don't read much about using Golden powder for anything here on APC. Could be known by another name perhaps?

[Sinken]

Yeah, it goes under the names Crimson powder and Yellow powder too, which are slightly modified versions, so that might be. Allthough because of it's hydorscopic tendencies, there's no reason not to make blackpowder. Unless you don't have a ballmill etc. of course.

 

Edit: Yellow powder is something completely different, while Crimson powder, as I said, is a slightly modified version.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Sinken

[BurritoBandito]

I would love to have a copy of this app. Definitely update this page with your expected release date when you know it.

 

- It would be neat for there to a safety questions tab on the app where users could communicate with each other to ask questions and address safety concerns with formulae, methodology, tooling, ect... Users could rate each others advice to build a status level so you would know that the advice you were receiving is coming from a decent source.

- You could use the GPS to determine location and have a page that pulls up local pyrotechnic laws/news/events.

- You could use the cameras luminosity detection (in the dark) to determine things like burn time of fuses... It would put two marks on the screen that you would position in such a way that it would mark the beginning and ending of a known length of fuse. When the fuse burns past mark 1 a fast timer would kick on. When it burns past mark 2 the timer would stop. Then the time recorded would be automatically divided by the length of the fuse (to determine inches/sec).

-Have you seen that app called ShopSavvy? You could do something similar that does a location based search of the web and a user defined database to find the best deals on supplies/chemicals.

-A "burst mode" camera that records a video and splits it into frames could be a nice feature

-A luminosity/decibel meter could be handy... Just comparing different comps in the same background noise/light for a quantified number instead of having just unaided eyes and ears making the observations.

-A colorwheel that tells you what chemicals in what ratio will make a specified color... This may be tricky unless the number of colors are fairly limited. It is probably different depending on usage of comp. Ex: stars vs loose powder. It may be better just to have a database that is organized by color than to actually create a calculator of sorts.

-You could probably make an altitude tracker for rockets that uses a known distance from the rocket, a known shoulder height of the phone operator (since this is altitude of the phone). The user would put a mark that is in the center of the screen at the peak height that the rocket traveled. The phones tilt angle would be collected from the accelerometer data and a little trig would determine the altitude... Sorry I know this description sort of sucks. See the app called "Dot Measure" for an example.

 

I will try to think of more ideas to post here. I look forward to your release. If you're looking for beta testers let me know, I'd be a grateful volunteer.

Edited May 21, 2013 by BurritoBandito

[Sinken]

I would love to have a copy of this app. Definitely update this page with your expected release date when you know it.

 

Of course

- It would be neat for there to a safety questions tab on the app where users could communicate with each other to ask questions and address safety concerns with formulae, methodology, tooling, ect... Users could rate each others advice to build a status level so you would know that the advice you were receiving is coming from a decent source.

 

Well, we have the comments section. Or did you think about something else? We've also considered to creat a small "forum, where you can make a topic etc. , and PM's will probably be allowed anyway. The rank system is under development, allthough we're still unsure how the rating will be.

 

- You could use the GPS to determine location and have a page that pulls up local pyrotechnic laws/news/events.

 

I have really no idea how to do this, but I'll look into it

 

- You could use the cameras luminosity detection (in the dark) to determine things like burn time of fuses... It would put two marks on the screen that you would position in such a way that it would mark the beginning and ending of a known length of fuse. When the fuse burns past mark 1 a fast timer would kick on. When it burns past mark 2 the timer would stop. Then the time recorded would be automatically divided by the length of the fuse (to determine inches/sec).

 

Very well, I'll see what I can do. This requires that the user holds the phone completely still though.

 

-Have you seen that app called ShopSavvy? You could do something similar that does a location based search of the web and a user defined database to find the best deals on supplies/chemicals.

 

Haven't heard of it, but we had somehing like this in mind

 

-A "burst mode" camera that records a video and splits it into frames could be a nice feature

 

 

A normal camera takes pictures at a rate of 30/s AFAIK, and most things burn a lot faster than that(I usually have to record with 600 frames/s to be able to see anything), but if it's not that much work (and it probably isn't), I'll do it.

 

-A luminosity/decibel meter could be handy... Just comparing different comps in the same background noise/light for a quantified number instead of having just unaided eyes and ears making the observations.

 

I don't know how accurat these are, but I'll see what I can do

 

-A colorwheel that tells you what chemicals in what ratio will make a specified color... This may be tricky unless the number of colors are fairly limited. It is probably different depending on usage of comp. Ex: stars vs loose powder. It may be better just to have a database that is organized by color than to actually create a calculator of sorts.

 

I think it would be easier to just have a lot of different formulaes. You can search using text, or you can sort by type etc. Or did I misunderstand?

 

-You could probably make an altitude tracker for rockets that uses a known distance from the rocket, a known shoulder height of the phone operator (since this is altitude of the phone). The user would put a mark that is in the center of the screen at the peak height that the rocket traveled. The phones tilt angle would be collected from the accelerometer data and a little trig would determine the altitude... Sorry I know this description sort of sucks. See the app called "Dot Measure" for an example.

 

I believe this would be inaccurat at best, but I'll take a look at "Dot Measure", and see. But it's a good idea.

 

I will try to think of more ideas to post here. I look forward to your release. If you're looking for beta testers let me know, I'd be a grateful volunteer.

 

Will do

 

We'll probably program the key features first, and then add the rest post-release. There's still a lot of do. The website is under development, we have to change from using text files to MySQL etc.

 

Sinken

[BurritoBandito]

-I suppose a comments section would suffice.

-GPS would determine state and look up state law at http://www.usfireworks.biz/legal/legal.htm (I'm not about sure this particular site)

-As at as the user holding the phone still, I would think they can just set it down.

-Yep, shopsavvy is pretty cool.

-Burst mode camera may not be fast enough for most uses, I'm sure there could be a few though...

-I wouldn't expect terrific accuracy either (from the mic/luminosity detector), it would just be for comparing two comps/configurations side by side... May not be accurate but it's better than the unaided eye, as long as the distances and positions of pyrotechnics and camera are kept constant.

-No, I agree. I would organize the color comps by their place in the electromagnetic spectrum though, for ease of reference and locating a specific color.

-The altitude tracker would be inaccurate, but a hell of a lot better than guessing. Kinda the same as the decibel/luminosity meter mentioned above.

 

[Sinken]

-GPS would determine state and look up state law at http://www.usfirewor...legal/legal.htm (I'm not about sure this particular site)

I'll look into it.

-As at as the user holding the phone still, I would think they can just set it down.

Yeah, probably. I'll see what I can do

-Burst mode camera may not be fast enough for most uses, I'm sure there could be a few though...

Maybe I'll add it post-release

-I wouldn't expect terrific accuracy either (from the mic/luminosity detector), it would just be for comparing two comps/configurations side by side... May not be accurate but it's better than the unaided eye, as long as the distances and positions of pyrotechnics and camera are kept constant.

Good point. I'll see what I can find out about how the detectors work, so we'll see.

-No, I agree. I would organize the color comps by their place in the electromagnetic spectrum though, for ease of reference and locating a specific color.

To be honest, I have no idea how I could aquire information like this, and making them and testing my self would probably be inaccurat, and would be very time consuming. If you know where I can find it though, I'll add it for sure.

-The altitude tracker would be inaccurate, but a hell of a lot better than guessing. Kinda the same as the decibel/luminosity meter mentioned above.

 

Can't be to hard, I'll add it to the to do list.

[BurritoBandito]

As far as the colors go:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrotechnic_colorant

Check out the part where it's talking about radiating species. It has some of this info available, an a lot of other good info too.

[Mumbles]

I don't want to take this off track, but golden powder and yellow powder are entirely different compositions. Golden powder is ascorbic acid and potassium nitrate. Yellow powder is potassium nitrate, sulfur, and sodium carbonate. Crimson powder is related to golden powder but has iron oxide added to it. None of these three compositions are really ever used in legitimate pyrotechnic manufacturing however.

 

Looks good. I hope this app pans out for you.

[Sinken]

I don't want to take this off track, but golden powder and yellow powder are entirely different compositions. Golden powder is ascorbic acid and potassium nitrate. Yellow powder is potassium nitrate, sulfur, and sodium carbonate. Crimson powder is related to golden powder but has iron oxide added to it.

 

Ohh, sorry, my source said otherwise, but that was just som random guy at a norwegian forum.

 

None of these three compositions are really ever used in legitimate pyrotechnic manufacturing however.

 

There's no harm in including them nontheles

 

Looks good. I hope this app pans out for you.

 

Thanks

[FlaMtnBkr]

Maybe have known chemical incompatibilities so that formulas are checked for problems. Maybe have different levels as there are legitimate mixtures of chlorate and sugar. Or maybe the user could identity themselves as new, hobbyist, or professional and that dictate the level of warning? Not sure, just throwing things out.

 

Also, you could have an inventory function. This would allow you to pick formulas you can make with your chemicals on hand. It would also track how much chemicals you have on hand. Maybe have a "made it" button under a formula that allows you to enter the batch size which then gives you the amount of each chemical needed and subtracts it from the inventory. Could maybe have an "alarm" when a chemical gets below a user determined low point (maybe half a pound for one person, or ten pounds for another). Since some chemicals are used a lot more than others, maybe have a low amount that a user determines when each chemical is selected as well as how much they have on hand.

 

Maybe different calculators. Like one that converts parts to percent. Or pounds to grams. Things like that.

 

Perhaps an altitude approximation. Allows you to take video and then select when the burst happens on playback and then calculates the time between burst and when the sound is heard. Then calculates the height based on time between when seen and heard.

 

Also, all these suggestions could take a long time to implement. I would focus on a few main functions and get it released so you can get feedback. Then work on adding additional features in later versions. If you try to undertake too much initially you might get burnt out.

 

Having a website version that lets people log in and save their settings might be good. I'm sure there are some older pyros that might enjoy it but don't have a suitable phone. Or the eyes to read small print on a phone. Could also have a forum for at least feedback.

 

Good luck and if I think of other things I will post again.

[psyco_1322]

Pyroguide is not the best place to source good info from. You might contact Kyle Kepler at Passfire, or Ned Gorski at his website. They could provide you with good, tried and true formulas for their appropriate uses.

 

Like Mumbles said, no one really use yellow/golden/crimson powders to make fireworks. It's just back info, basically pointed towards noobs that want something that goes bang. If you tried to lift a heavy shell with it, you would find yourself buying a new mortar after it blows the one you had to pieces.

[Seymour]

Apologies in advance for continuing to sidetrack the thread, but as I understand it, Potassium nitrate and ascorbic acid in all it's varieties may be usable for lift when prepared correctly, but suffered from being slow burning and hygroscopi, not that it's too powerful/fast. Similarly KNSU has more gas and energy than black powder, but it's burning characteristics are just not useful for lift, even worse than KN Ascorbic. I think KNO3/Ascorbic is notable for the fact that it works- just, can be made by co-crystalising (kinda neat) and the high cost.

 

I think that most times people have been bringing up the topic of yellow powder was to point out that no one was talking about it and it has nothing to do with anything else on the topic. I'll continue that tradition. It was not used for any fireworks, let alone lift.

[Sinken]

As far as the colors go:

http://en.m.wikipedi...echnic_colorant

Check out the part where it's talking about radiating species. It has some of this info available, an a lot of other good info too.

 

I'll look into it. I was thinking more of a rating system on the stars though, where the user can rate (amongst other things) the purity of the color.

[Sinken]

Maybe have known chemical incompatibilities so that formulas are checked for problems. Maybe have different levels as there are legitimate mixtures of chlorate and sugar. Or maybe the user could identity themselves as new, hobbyist, or professional and that dictate the level of warning? Not sure, just throwing things out.

 

We'll check all uploaded compositions manually, so that's no problem. Regarding the "rank", we're thinking about something like that. The only problem is: how?

Also, you could have an inventory function. This would allow you to pick formulas you can make with your chemicals on hand. It would also track how much chemicals you have on hand. Maybe have a "made it" button under a formula that allows you to enter the batch size which then gives you the amount of each chemical needed and subtracts it from the inventory. Could maybe have an "alarm" when a chemical gets below a user determined low point (maybe half a pound for one person, or ten pounds for another). Since some chemicals are used a lot more than others, maybe have a low amount that a user determines when each chemical is selected as well as how much they have on hand.

 

Maybe different calculators. Like one that converts parts to percent. Or pounds to grams. Things like that.

 

Good idea, I'll add it to the to-do list.

 

 

 

Perhaps an altitude approximation. Allows you to take video and then select when the burst happens on playback and then calculates the time between burst and when the sound is heard. Then calculates the height based on time between when seen and heard.

 

 

I'll think about it. Won't be our Nr.1 priority though

 

Also, all these suggestions could take a long time to implement. I would focus on a few main functions and get it released so you can get feedback. Then work on adding additional features in later versions. If you try to undertake too much initially you might get burnt out.

 

This is what we're doing at the moment, but there's a lot of main functions too.

 

Having a website version that lets people log in and save their settings might be good. I'm sure there are some older pyros that might enjoy it but don't have a suitable phone. Or the eyes to read small print on a phone. Could also have a forum for at least feedback.

 

This is under development.

Good luck and if I think of other things I will post again.

 

Thanks

[Sinken]

Pyroguide is not the best place to source good info from. You might contact Kyle Kepler at Passfire, or Ned Gorski at his website. They could provide you with good, tried and true formulas for their appropriate uses.

 

Like Mumbles said, no one really use yellow/golden/crimson powders to make fireworks. It's just back info, basically pointed towards noobs that want something that goes bang. If you tried to lift a heavy shell with it, you would find yourself buying a new mortar after it blows the one you had to pieces.

 

Well, maybe not, but for that part we're relying on/hoping that the community will help us. Later today (or in a couple of days) I'll upload the Data tool, which we use to edit and add stuff, in case any of you want to help.

 

Apologies in advance for continuing to sidetrack the thread, but as I understand it, Potassium nitrate and ascorbic acid in all it's varieties may be usable for lift when prepared correctly, but suffered from being slow burning and hygroscopi, not that it's too powerful/fast. Similarly KNSU has more gas and energy than black powder, but it's burning characteristics are just not useful for lift, even worse than KN Ascorbic. I think KNO3/Ascorbic is notable for the fact that it works- just, can be made by co-crystalising (kinda neat) and the high cost.

 

I think that most times people have been bringing up the topic of yellow powder was to point out that no one was talking about it and it has nothing to do with anything else on the topic. I'll continue that tradition. It was not used for any fireworks, let alone lift.

 

I'll add a note to it, thanks

[mike_au]

Personally, I like to leave my phone, and other distractions inside while working on pyro. Perhaps you could include an option to enable air plane mode at start up to prevent calls, sms, emails, etc. from coming in while the app is running. Obviously that would need to download any database updates first.