Whistle 2 questions..

[Jordan123]

Hi,

 

I make a whitsle mix and i ball mill my powder, this recipe :

Potassium perchlorate 70

Sodium benzoate 30

 

(I ball mill separately )

 

But after making the mix, i can't make the whistle sound...

I have try many technics but i can't..

How you make this sound ?

 

And, how i can make this :

(just the whistle not the end of the movie)

[fredhappy]

Hello Jordan,

 

Please stay away from whistlemix for now. You are still having issues with relatively simple problems such as priming cilindrical stars, this means you are not ready to venture into whistlemix.

 

Whistlemix is a high energy mix. Also, the formulae you've posted seems to be missing some ingredients, especially some kind of oil/vaseline to make the mix a bit more insensitive.

 

Please keep in mind that whistlemix is almost similar to flashpowder in terms of explosive force. It is also quite sensitive for friction, so the fact that you seem to have omitted the vaseline makes it even more dangerous for you to work with it.

 

Keep your project simple, try to resolve your priming issues. Work on making effective lift/meal powder. Whistlemix/flash is not a beginners project, ce'st tres dangereux mon ami!!

 

I do not mean this in a negative/admonishing way, just a friendly and concerned word of advice.

 

best,

 

fred

[dangerousamateur]

Did you press it in a tube?

[LTUPyro]

Whistle mix is not the right powder to begginer work with. Anyways, to make it whistle you need to compact (press) it into tube with some kind of press and I dont recommend try to ram if you won't to lose a hand. Also as fredhappy said, use mineral oil to make it more insensitive, also you should add catalist like Fe203 or Copper Oxyxhloride to give it more power.

[dagabu]

Hi,

 

I make a whitsle mix and i ball mill my powder, this recipe :

Potassium perchlorate 70

Sodium benzoate 30

 

(I ball mill separately )

 

But after making the mix, i can't make the whistle sound...

I have try many technics but i can't..

How you make this sound ?

 

Jordan,

 

One of the issues we have found with whistle chemicals is the quality and the fillers used in the Perc. I have some cheap Chinese Perc that works well for rocket fuel but doesn't make any whistle at all and I have some US Perc that is pure as it gets that makes a very loud and clear whistle sound.

 

IMHO, you have some bad Perc for the whistle sound. Be careful when making or using whistle, these guys that have already responded know what they are talking about, it is very energetic and can kill you if it goes up on you.

 

Here is a video of what a pound of whistle can do:

[Jordan123]

Hi,

 

I have 2 year of experience, but i'm not informed, in france the pyro made is not developped ...

I'm very interssing of the homemade pyro, thank you very much for you board, i know the whistle mix is very hard, you say i can't press this ?

Have you got a safe board for the making an using ?

 

My prime is not a big problem, i can prime but it's very long and more and less a bad quality, i must add in my shell lot of BP.

 

With this recipe the whistle mix can't function ?

Please help me, i'm carefull.

[Jordan123]

Thank you very much for all the advice, this is a very useful forum

[fredhappy]

Hi Jordan,

 

You say you have 2 years of experience, yet still seem to be having serious issues priming the simplest of cylinder stars . Priming is so very important, I can easily say it is almost impossible to progress with this hobby when you are unable to effectively prime a batch of stars. I am talking about 100% ignition, not 95%..remember, what goes up will go down, so have everything ignite correctly, for your safety and the safety of possible innocent bystanders.

 

The best advice I can give you is to progress slowly. Start out with simple things, like mines/fountains or small shells with cylinder stars. When you start out with mines for instance, you learn how to make an efficient lift charge and also how to prime stars in an effective manner. I still get a lot of satisfaction from a nice mine ,a simple fountain or a small calibre shell. Your stuff doesn't have to be huge to get a nice kick out of, just simple things can also be very rewarding. I have this thing for fountains......

 

The fact that you acknowledge that you have to use a lot of BP for lifting your shell tells me you did not fully master making quality BP. Making your own quality BP is an absolute must in pyro, you simply can not progress before you have mastered this.

 

In my country there is also little knowledge about pyrotechnics. But with reading ( shimizu for instance) you can get a basic understanding on how things work. I have to say that not being able to read technical English greatly diminishes your ability to understand things. Most information is all in English, so you might want to brush up on your language skills.

 

Please, do not tinker with whistle mix or flash at this moment . I do not make whistlemix myself, I have never been very comfortable with that mix, it is mighty energetic. You need to read up on a certain mix BEFORE you try to make it, not just mix the stuff up and then come up with obvious questions. Safety first when making stuff.

 

Always ask yourself how sensitive the mixture is you are making, and also why it is sensitive. Try to have a basic understanding about chemical reactions and chemicals. I am certainly not a chemist, but I know my materials I am working with. The fact that you did not add any mineral oil/vaseline tells me you did not educate yourself properly in regard to whistle mix. Whistle mix is a serious mixture, please be careful. I know professional pyro's who are scared of and carefull with whistle. Accidents/deaths/dismemberments have occured from the use of whistle, I know about some of these accidents. It is a very unforgiving mixture once something goes wrong with it. Again...mighty energetic stuff....

 

Again, I am not admonishing you or talking down to you, I am just urging you to be extremely careful and understand what you are doing.

 

A question, may I ask how old you are?

 

be safe,

 

Fred

Edited May 8, 2013 by fredhappy

[dagabu]

Hi,

 

I have 2 year of experience, but i'm not informed, in france the pyro made is not developped ...

I'm very interssing of the homemade pyro, thank you very much for you board, i know the whistle mix is very hard, you say i can't press this ?

Have you got a safe board for the making an using ?

 

My prime is not a big problem, i can prime but it's very long and more and less a bad quality, i must add in my shell lot of BP.

 

With this recipe the whistle mix can't function ?

Please help me, i'm carefull.

 

Yes, you have to press whistle in order to get the whistle sound (oscillation) from it but don't hammer it ever, it is sensitive to impact.

 

THIS THREAD will help you understand the need for a phlegmatizer and catalyst as well.

[Jordan123]

Ok, i try this night or tomorrow !

For safe it's not good press with my hand ? (Metalic tube or wood ?)

 

Wood

[dagabu]

Hand pressing does not make enough pressure, it will not whistle in most cases. You need a press.

[nater]

NO. Whistles must be pressed with a press. Your body weight alone will not provide enough pressure to properly consolidate the fuel. I assume you don't own a press? Then don't even think about making whistles until you do.

 

edit: Dag beat me to it.

Edited May 8, 2013 by nater

[Jordan123]

Hi Jordan,

 

You say you have 2 years of experience, yet still seem to be having serious issues priming the simplest of cylinder stars . Priming is so very important, I can easily say it is almost impossible to progress with this hobby when you are unable to effectively prime a batch of stars. I am talking about 100% ignition, not 95%..remember, what goes up will go down, so have everything ignite correctly, for your safety and the safety of possible innocent bystanders.

 

The best advice I can give you is to progress slowly. Start out with simple things, like mines/fountains or small shells with cylinder stars. When you start out with mines for instance, you learn how to make an efficient lift charge and also how to prime stars in an effective manner. I still get a lot of satisfaction from a nice mine ,a simple fountain or a small calibre shell. Your stuff doesn't have to be huge to get a nice kick out of, just simple things can also be very rewarding. I have this thing for fountains......

 

The fact that you acknowledge that you have to use a lot of BP for lifting your shell tells me you did not fully master making quality BP. Making your own quality BP is an absolute must in pyro, you simply can not progress before you have mastered this.

 

In my country there is also little knowledge about pyrotechnics. But with reading ( shimizu for instance) you can get a basic understanding on how things work. I have to say that not being able to read technical English greatly diminishes your ability to understand things. Most information is all in English, so you might want to brush up on your language skills.

 

Please, do not tinker with whistle mix or flash at this moment . I do not make whistlemix myself, I have never been very comfortable with that mix, it is mighty energetic. You need to read up on a certain mix BEFORE you try to make it, not just mix the stuff up and then come up with obvious questions. Safety first when making stuff.

 

Always ask yourself how sensitive the mixture is you are making, and also why it is sensitive. Try to have a basic understanding about chemical reactions and chemicals. I am certainly not a chemist, but I know my materials I am working with. The fact that you did not add any mineral oil/vaseline tells me you did not educate yourself properly in regard to whistle mix. Whistle mix is a serious mixture, please be careful. I know professional pyro's who are scared of and carefull with whistle. Accidents/deaths/dismemberments have occured from the use of whistle, I know about some of these accidents. It is a very unforgiving mixture once something goes wrong with it. Again...mighty energetic stuff....

 

Again, I am not admonishing you or talking down to you, I am just urging you to be extremely careful and understand what you are doing.

 

A question, may I ask how old you are?

 

be safe,

 

Fred

 

Hi,

 

Thank you for you warning, i make a good BP i haven't got problem with the lift of my shell.

The problem of the prime is i not kno how apply the prime on the stars.. it's difficult, the problem can be off the BP rice ? ( I mill less longer the BP for the rice)

I have 15 years old.. But i'm very very interssing of the pyro, this my life, i love this !

 

For the whistle mix, what i must do ?

I have more or less 200gr in the plastic box

[Jordan123]

If you say whistle mix is dangerous, i must not use this..

[nater]

Yes, whistle mix is dangerous. It is almost as sensitive as flash. Some recent tests showed similar damage on the ground between 50g of whistle and a 3in salute. There have been a few accidents while pressing rockets attributed to whistle being pinched and ignigted. All that said, it can be used safely, with certain precautions. A press with a good shield is mandatory. Edited May 9, 2013 by nater

[fredhappy]

Jason: I understand. I am not certain what you mean with less longer milling for rice, but I assume you mean you do not mill your BP as long as your lift when you use it for ricehulls???

 

In general, the BP you use for coating your ricehulls should be as powerful as possible. I would omit the need for boosting in your case ,and would advice to experiment with making your BP as powerfull as you can make it. This is done by milling it as long as possible.

 

Also, please Jordan, I ask you kindly, read Nates reply carefully. You need a press with a good shield if you want to venture into whistlemixes. These are mandatory indeed. If you have no press and shield, do not attempt to make whistle, I can not put it any clearer then that.

 

I understand your enthusiasm, but perhaps it is wiser to try and restrain yourself a bit. You are dealing with high energy mixes which are, again, unforgiving in case something goes wrong.

 

please be safe, and think about your personal safety at all times. Try and read a lot before actually making stuff. Think about your poor parents in case you would have an accident, try to take things slowly with pyrotechnics.

 

I am sorry if I keep repeating myself, I want to help in some cases, but I feel a strong compulsion to try and steer you away from whistle mix. You sound like a nice kid, I mean well..

 

best

 

Fred

Edited May 8, 2013 by fredhappy

[psyco_1322]

Jordan, you can use the whistle fuel you have to boost your shell breaks if you want, or just use it to make reports. It is probably more sensitive than standard perc/Al flash, and it is nearly just as fast and powerful. So do keep it in mind that it is a strong explosive.

[mikeee]

To make a reliable whistle rocket you need to press them to about 8000-9000 psi of force.

If you go to www.firesmithtools.com Ben Smith has a step by step tutorial on how to make a whistle fuel for rockets.

If you don't use a hydraulic press and press a good solid fuel grain you will get a lot of cato's.

This one of the better tutorials showing a step by step reliable process for a high quality rocket fuel that works great.

[Jordan123]

Ok thank you, but i stop the whistle mix, you say is dangerous.

Jason: I understand. I am not certain what you mean with less longer milling for rice, but I assume you mean you do not mill your BP as long as your lift when you use it for ricehulls???

 

In general, the BP you use for coating your ricehulls should be as powerful as possible. I would omit the need for boosting in your case ,and would advice to experiment with making your BP as powerfull as you can make it. This is done by milling it as long as possible.

 

Also, please Jordan, I ask you kindly, read Nates reply carefully. You need a press with a good shield if you want to venture into whistlemixes. These are mandatory indeed. If you have no press and shield, do not attempt to make whistle, I can not put it any clearer then that.

 

I understand your enthusiasm, but perhaps it is wiser to try and restrain yourself a bit. You are dealing with high energy mixes which are, again, unforgiving in case something goes wrong.

 

please be safe, and think about your personal safety at all times. Try and read a lot before actually making stuff. Think about your poor parents in case you would have an accident, try to take things slowly with pyrotechnics.

 

I am sorry if I keep repeating myself, I want to help in some cases, but I feel a strong compulsion to try and steer you away from whistle mix. You sound like a nice kid, I mean well..

 

best

 

Fred

 

Yes exactly, today i make a best ricehulls ( i have mill black powder more 30hours)

[yvariro]

Jordan I'm french too,I'm 16,lot of kid on apc lol,if you want we can speak in pm

I learn a lot thanks to this forum and thanks to all the people of the forum !

Unfortunately the years since you begin to make your own firework can't say all,

Take your time for mastered the base of the pyro,at your time,it'not because someone begin directly to make 3 and 4 inch shell that you should too,a 2" ball shell,if made perfectly can be better than à 3" made with no skills,

But it's just an exemple

 

Making good burst charge is a key for a nice and good symetry of your stars !

 

 

[ChloRure]

Well I will ask in this thread since already talking about whistle...

 

I want to add ground whistle effect to a show, dont want them to fly like a rocket.

 

Here is the formula I am using

K benzoate... 76g

Kclo4... 23g

Catalyst... 1g ( black copper oxide )

+3% minerL oil in acetone

 

First about catalyst... I saw the test on the web with multiple cata, since I just want the big sound, does it really matter which one I take sice them seem to have about the same level (126-135) db

 

Also, what about the nozzle ? I just drill one instead of two since I dont want a rocket? What about the size of the nozzle, I read somewhere 1/3 of the tube id... This look like small for such a mix?

 

Just want your input before wasting chem and time. Thanks

 

Ps: I will use a 2ton press for this

[VikingPyrotechnics]

No,

a nozzle would ensure that it explodes.

Simply press the mix into a tube.

without core and without nozzle.

With different catalysts can also get different tones.

With iron oxide II (not the black), you get off to a pretty good sound.

[fredhappy]

#chloru: please, the combination of whistle and drilling is a very bad idea. No nozzles are required, whistle rockets take off like a bullet without nozzle.Remember the energy output of whistle is amost equal to flash!

 

Do not attempt to drill into whistlemix, even if you only want to make a nozzle. You have to sligtly drill into a fuel core when you are using a drill to make a nozzle...with whistlemix this is a very bad idea...respect the power of whistle, handle with care!

[ChloRure]

Sound good, I was afraid to drill the mix, since I know the power of it. But I saw on the web at least 2 major tutorial with nozzle drilled so I was confused. I tought it was like a fountain, but with whistle as a result.

 

Thanks for the help with try that this weekend

[FlaMtnBkr]

Plenty of whistle rockets have a core of some type though often shorter than a BP rocket. But since you aren't making a rocket you don't need a core. Obviously with no nozzle or core there is no clay. The whistle is formed by oscillating which resonates in the tube. So you want to have at least 1 ID of empty space before the whistle mix. A good hard tube helps give a good sound so you might want to try soaking a couple tubes in wood hardener, which is basically polyurethane/acetone 50:50, and see if that gives you a better sound. Like everyone said, whistle is very energetic so respect it when working with it. Only have a small amount out so if there is an accidental ignition you are minimizing how much is close by. Enough for one or two whistles is plenty and then get more after it is used up. And even small 3/8" tubes will make a pretty good whistle. They don't have to be huge.

 

Just some thoughts.