New guy/non political gov't rant

[dmbriske]

Ok, first, been reading a lot here for a bit anyways and have already learned a lot. My practical pyro experience is nothing more than sugar rockets and a standard an/al reactive target mix. /rant; confusion/ so sick of paying 3ish a lb. Of AN online and tried to sorce locally only to be told 4 times by 4 suppliers/co-ops they can't sell me 50 lbs, min order is 1 ton... So the guy at the counter says he cant sell me 50 lbs because of liabilities but 2000 lbs is okay! And lastly on the dangerous side peroxide is available over the counter no questions asked! (no, never have or will go down that road) /rant/ .

Is this the kind of battle I'm to expect if I continue with this hobby and get more to the art side of things?

[Seymour]

I'd guess that someone called him up and told him to look out for small orders of AN because they are likely to be used for explosives... after all how many farmers get a single bag? Not enough, considering the profit from that one bag to convince this guy to sell it.

 

Ultimately you will get a fair bit of this kind of bureaucratic nonsense, and to be fair, I think it's expected. We are making explosives here, and I'm supportive of there being regulation, it's just a shame that the regulation is so inconsistent, lax here and excessive there, and half the time, nonsensical and contradictory.

 

However the battle is likely to ease as you become part of the community of pyros, and convince your community that pyro is ok. You'll never fully escape the crap, especially since it seems to be getting worse, but through the network you gain on here and in other parts of the pyro community you should be increasingly be able to get supplies honestly, with the seller fully aware of what you want them for, and who is trusting and supportive of your experiments.

 

Essentially, you can expect to have the outside world stay like that and even get worse, but the more you are able to integrate yourself in to the community we have here, increasingly doors open that give you access to more goodies at lower cost, and the frequency with which you need to interact with people like the Fertilizer traders you mention will every increasingly drop.

[patsroom]

It's kind of funny about that type of thing. Something you can find in the size you want, and there are times they are questioning your intent as to what you are going to do with it and when you tell tell the truth as to what it is your doing they panic and think the wrong things. Your have to spark their interest in selling to you, may be they have damage bags that are not sell able to the public that you can talk them into selling you which could be of the size and quaity that you are wanting for a cheaper price than retail. May be if you became freinds with them they may make a exception to the rule as long as they do not violate the law. Other time you just have to find a different source. It's sometime just a crap shoot and you have got to go with the rolles.

[mikeee]

The Ammonium Nitrate Security Program is a proposed regulation developed by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in response to direction from Congress to "regulate the sale and transfer of ammonium nitrate by an ammonium nitrate facility...to prevent the misappropriation or use of ammonium nitrate in an act of terrorism." Section 563 of the Fiscal Year (FY) 2008 Department of Homeland Security Appropriations Act (P.L. 110-161) (PDF - 614 pages, 1.69 MB) amends the Homeland Security Act of 2002.

The Ammonium Nitrate Security Program is outlined in the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM), and it seeks to reduce the likelihood of a terrorist attack involving misused ammonium nitrate by creating a registration program for purchasers and sellers of ammonium nitrate. Each purchaser and seller will be required to apply for an Ammonium Nitrate (AN) Registered User Number with the Department, and each applicant will be screened against the Terrorist Screening Database (TSDB). Following the screening process, approved individuals will be issued an AN Registered User Number, which will allow them to engage in the sale, purchase, or transfer of ammonium nitrate.

Transactions involving the sale or transfer of ammonium nitrate will be regulated at the point of sale and procedures for reporting a theft or loss of ammonium nitrate will be established. Ammonium nitrate sellers will be required to deny sale or transfer of ammonium nitrate to individuals who:

• Do not possess a valid AN Registered User Number accompanied by a valid photo ID; or
  
• Are not authorized by a person possessing a valid AN Registered User Number to act on their behalf as an agent.
  

The regulation will require businesses to keep records of all ammonium nitrate transactions for two years, and DHS may inspect and audit facility records to ensure compliance.

[dmbriske]

Seymour, Patsroom, I know you're both right, but being active duty is difficult. I claim Norfolk/va beach as home but spend substantial amounts of time in different areas, my failed purchase attempts were in Mississippi, where I'll be for another couple months. The part of it all that gets me is I told 2 of the 3 why I wanted 34-0-0 one directed me to a well knowen pyro websight (who sells ap but not an) to buy in the 'small' quantities I wanted but both were willing to sell to me @26 cents a pound as long as i got at least a ton. I live on base at the moment, only own a half ton pickup that needs to haul all my stuff when I depart here and really don't want that conversation as I come through the front gate with a pickup loaded with 'bomb making materials'...

Mike, I had seen that info posted, but was lead to believe that it was a proposal that never got finalized, not on a national/federal level anyways.

I guess the microwave mentality had gotten a hold of me and i need to slow down a bit and get to know the new people in my surroundings... I agree with some regulation and responsibility but I don't trust the un-educated and misinformed people with knee jerk reactions to be the ones to make the judgement calls and regulations.

[mikeee]

Anyone that deals in these materials are walking a thin line and don't want the ATF and HLS knocking on their door if another

major incident occurs like the Boston Marathon bombing. There have been a number of Pyro suppliers that have been closed

down over the years for selling materials to individuals for making non-legal items. A supplier not involved in the Pyro world is

going to be hesitant in selling questionable materials to someone that makes "things that go boom".

 

We should all try to find someone in the lawncare business, farming business, landscaping business, etc. that has access to the

bulk fertilizers that we use in pyrotechnic mixes. Joining a pyrotechnic club if one is available in your area will usually help in locating

a source for bulk materials like these.

[taiwanluthiers]

Why should they be so concerned with "bomb making materials" on a military base? They got lots of finished products.

 

fact is they're going to regulate any conceivable way of obtaining "bomb making material" regardless of the industry they're in. People that got shut down had no idea they were selling materials for construction of illegal device and they shouldn't be responsible for that, after all how could they have known? But since they're willing to lock down an entire city over a 19 year old criminal and do far more damage to the economy than the initial incident caused, they're not known for making sense.

[Bobosan]

But since they're willing to lock down an entire city over a 19 year old criminal and do far more damage to the economy than the initial incident caused, they're not known for making sense.

 

Scary, isn't it?