BurritoBandito Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 That's actually a good idea because I bet it lights that whole core up PDQ.
dagabu Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 (edited) No, its fine, these things need to be said. And I can get them, but, again, I don't wanna get a bunch of materials for 1 rocket. ... Lets start back at the beginning shall we? You can make rockets for a sawbuck if you want to, you will need to get your parents involved and explain how you are going to be safe as you go about pursuing the hobby and if your dad is a participating person in your life, you have a darn good chance to get him to help you make a few rockets before he goes back to the Bark-O-lounger for a nap. For a good place to start with making your first rocket, see The Incredible Five Cent Sugar Rocket link. Shoot me a PM. Edited May 3, 2013 by dagabu
TranslucentDragon Posted May 4, 2013 Author Posted May 4, 2013 My dad is helping me and has given me about half of the ideas I've had (for the rocket part, I have the fuel part). And when I said one rocket I really meant for my first project, sorry for the misunderstanding. Why is visco not allowed at events?
BurritoBandito Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 (edited) I would like to know why they don't allow visco as well. Edited May 4, 2013 by BurritoBandito
TranslucentDragon Posted May 4, 2013 Author Posted May 4, 2013 Although this has no relation to anything ever, BurridoBandito- your username is awesome. Also, your signature is pretty cool too. Just thought I'd say...
dagabu Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 The rule book doesn't specify WHY cannon fuse/visco can't be used but it does prohibit it's use. I am only speculating here but I believe it has to do with the need to abort a launch. You cannot abort a launch with visco unless you are at the rocket and even then, I certainly wont do it. The "Launch Pad" idea with e-matches is much safer in theory.
nater Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 The rule book doesn't specify WHY cannon fuse/visco can't be used but it does prohibit it's use. I am only speculating here but I believe it has to do with the need to abort a launch. You cannot abort a launch with visco unless you are at the rocket and even then, I certainly wont do it. The "Launch Pad" idea with e-matches is much safer in theory. My guess is that is that it might have to do with how Estes and Quest were able to get the motors classified as toys instead of fireworks. Having kids push a button to launch a model rocket would appear to be safer than giving them a piece of fuse and a match. I don't really know the reason either, but I do know they take it very seriously.
TranslucentDragon Posted May 4, 2013 Author Posted May 4, 2013 (edited) Well, I'm hoping to make my rockets today, maybe even launch them if I don't mess up the fuel. Wish me luck and pictures to come. I've decided just to see how the fuel burns so I'll be putting it in some of my bigger and more misshaped tubes I made and putting them in nozzleless rockets. Edited May 4, 2013 by TranslucentDragon
BurritoBandito Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 (edited) Nozzleless KNSU won't work. You NEED the nozzle to generate enough thrust with this fuel. Just ram some litter and drill it. It's a vital step for sugar rockets. If you want to test your fuel do a strand test. Edited May 4, 2013 by BurritoBandito
TranslucentDragon Posted May 4, 2013 Author Posted May 4, 2013 Actually, my dad just got Durham's Water Putty (thanks Dagabu) so I think I'm going to use that, and I don't want lift for these bigger ones, I just want to see how the fuel works.
BurritoBandito Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Right on. I have read good things about Durhams "rock hard" water putty. I've never used it personally. Sounds like you've got a pretty cool dad. Mine never would have supported my pyro hobbies.
TranslucentDragon Posted May 4, 2013 Author Posted May 4, 2013 Ya, he's pretty cool. But I have come to a problem. My heating source didn't work, so now I've got to go to goodwill to buy and electric skillet. Now I have to wait before I can make the fuel *pouts*.
BurritoBandito Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 You could always just dry ram the powder without heating it. Just make sure it is as thoroughy mixed as possible. It won't be quite as good, but it doesn't involve cooking.
TranslucentDragon Posted May 5, 2013 Author Posted May 5, 2013 Haha, I thought of that, but I realized that I really wanted to use the Recrystallization Method, plus the KNO3 I have has big granules, and isn't powder.
nater Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 ...Sounds like you've got a pretty cool dad. Mine never would have supported my pyro hobbies. It's been a while since I have lived at home, but I was just at my Dad's house tonight and he helped test a few motors on a thrust stand.
BurritoBandito Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) My dad discouraged my scientific endeavors every since I was little. I got off on the wrong foot with him on that by routinely mixing a bunch of random chemicals together when I was really young. Like probably 5ish. He would get pissed off because I would take things apart to try and figure out how they worked... Then not be able to put them back together. I can't blame him for a lot of it, because it was dangerous and things would get broken. I'm sure it was frustrating. I do think he should have nourished my interest, and helped me to be safe. I never lost that interest though and now that I'm an adult I think he realizes that he was wrong for being the way he was when I was a child. I hold no grudge. As a father of two beautiful little girls I can understand wanting to protect your children. He still doesn't appreciate my interest in pyrotechnics though... @TranslucentDragon: I don't blame you. If you're gonna do something you may as well do it right. Edited May 5, 2013 by BurritoBandito
TranslucentDragon Posted May 5, 2013 Author Posted May 5, 2013 @BurridoBandito I'm not sure whether to laugh or to cry... it makes me wonder how much my dad has to put up with me, probably a lot . And I'm guessing your daughters have a pretty awesome time on the Fourth of July don't they . And that's if I can get a heat source... bleck
BurritoBandito Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 One of my daughters is going to be seeing her first 4th this year. But I live outside of city limits so I get to play with pyrotechnics year round. My two year old "makes rocketships" as she calls them. Really shes just shoving playdough into cardboard tubes and sticking them into a cardboard rocket body that I made her, but she loves it. She thinks my ball mill is her. My girls are pretty awesome. I lok forward to her getting a little bigger so that she can set them up and fire them. My dad wasn't a bad person, he just didn't understand that science was such an important part of my life. Mixing chemicals can be dangerous, and buying things to have them ripped to pieces gets expensive. He was stubborn, but I follow his logic, I just disagree with his methods.
TranslucentDragon Posted May 5, 2013 Author Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) I see what you mean, I suddenly feel incredibly grateful for the fact that I was raised by a family of "science accepting" people. Ironically, my grandfather made rockets, and my uncle works for NASA, and here I am...following in their footsteps. Haha, I actually think my uncle did the same thing to me when I was that young, gave me a hollowed out rocket with no motor, although he was next to me, shooting real model rockets... Edited May 5, 2013 by TranslucentDragon
TranslucentDragon Posted May 5, 2013 Author Posted May 5, 2013 If I'm using water to dissolve my reactants, does it matter how much water I use (other than the fact it'll take me longer to boil off). If it does, how much of the sugar should I mix with room temperature water (you guys gave me the ratio for boiling water, but not for room temp).
TranslucentDragon Posted May 6, 2013 Author Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) The finished the process of making it, now I have to pack it into the rockets I made. Sorry for the blurry pics Edited May 6, 2013 by TranslucentDragon
BurritoBandito Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 Nice. Be aware that your fuel is hygroscopic (it pulls moisture from the air) if you don't use it immediately you should store it in an airtight container with some desiccant.
SekndAmendment Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 Hey Everyone,So I've been searching through the forums and, of course, the mighty Google and found a couple threads about RCandy but mostly they were about how they burned and not how they were made. I'm wondering if anyone can give me a tutorial or just tell me how to make rocket candy(the recrystallization process with corn syrup as well as sugar and KNO3) as well as the science behind how it all "works". This might be an odd request but I actually want this to be a thread where a bunch of people come together and describe a bunch of different varieties of how it's made(not just the before mentioned version) so there will be a place for beginners to see how they can make the glorious stuff. Thanks everyone. RCandy is a lot of fun and pretty straightforward to make. There is plenty of variation in the recipes that people use so I advise you try a few different ones until you get one you like. I read that you don't have a coffee grinder or electric hotplate or to work with. The reason behind the coffee grinder is that it reduces the grain size of prilled (granulated) KNO3. It typically sells in larger grains, that are too big for use in rocketry. KNO3 has a MUCH higher melting point than the sugar you're using, so when you cook the ingredients there is no actual chemical reaction taking place between the ingredients. What happens is the sugar begins to caramelize and coats the grains of KNO3 while you're stirring it. This works great if your KNO3 grains are very small, which results in a homogeneous mixture. If you use the full sized prills then the mixture isn't homogeneous enough and you don't get enough oxygen from the KNO3 to the sugar for proper combustion. There is a great way around the coffee grinder though. Both KNO3 and sugar are water soluble. You can dissolve them both in water, and then boil the water off on an electric range in your kitchen (stay away from open flames). The water in the mixture keeps everything at around 212 F so there is no risk of overheating. Once the water boils off, turn the heat down and begin stirring constantly. Stir until you reach a peanut butter consistency and the sugar starts to darken a bit in color. If you have any additives like iron or aluminum powders, now is the time to add them. From this point, you can follow the directions of some of the other posts on this thread. If you're interested in using some type of corn syrup, it's just a different form of similar sugar molecules. It's just more fuel, but with the additive bonus of acting like a binder that helps hold your R-Candy together. Press it while it's hot, core it, cool it before you fire. Maybe somebody on here with some more chemistry knowledge than I have could offer some reasons why you wouldn't want to dissolve the ingredients in water first instead of grinding, but in my ignorance the reasoning escapes me. The main difference between R-Candy motors and a smoke bomb is the burn rate. Most of the smoker recipes I've seen typically have a good amount of baking soda, to slow down the burn substantially. You don't want your smoker flying down the street! Also, purchase some colored powder dyes at a hobby shop to get some cool colors. You can even toss a bit into the rockets for cool exhaust trails. This was a quick resource that I used a while back: http://www.jacobsrocketry.com/aer/caramel_candy_propellant.htm and has a couple ratios in there you can try out. Keep safety as a priority, avoid excessive amounts of heat while cooking.
TranslucentDragon Posted May 6, 2013 Author Posted May 6, 2013 Ya, I was wondering why my fuel basically granulated. There were bumps, and it didn't turn out creamy. I only used KNO3 and Sugar, and I just used enough water to dissolve them in. What happened? Will corn syrup help? @Seknd Amendment: I actually got a skillet today, but thanks for the info. I was planning on buying some blue dyes, but they are insanely expensive.
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