TranslucentDragon Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 So I'm new at this whole thing but, I'm mainly trying to make rocket candy(KNO3 + Sucrose/Glucose/Fructose...etc...etc) but I kinda started to look at some Thermite and Gunpowder(not to make it though) and I've got a couple questions:Why is sulfur used in gunpowder to lower ignition temp...Why are only metal oxides used in thermite...What is the purpose of using metal oxides instead of just any old oxidizer...Are there any kinds of common household oxidizers...What are some other good starting explosives and rocket fuels...
Mumbles Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 The answer to most of your questions is "that's just the way it is". It's how it's defined or how it functions. Sulfur is used in black powder to lower the ignition temperature because, well that's what it does. It probably has to do with it's relatively low melting point. It also increases the gas production. If you didn't use metal oxides in thermite, it wouldn't be thermite. Look up the goldschmidt reaction. Without a metal oxide it's something different. See the last answer. Yes. Black powder or R-candy/sugar rockets is really where anyone serious about the hobby starts. If you can't make these simple things, you really have no business trying to make anything more advanced. 1
TranslucentDragon Posted April 22, 2013 Author Posted April 22, 2013 Black powder is just charcoal, KNO3, and sulfar, correct?And, by chance, could you name a couple common household oxidizers?Do you know what the reaction of a metal without a metal oxidizer is called?
TranslucentDragon Posted April 22, 2013 Author Posted April 22, 2013 Also, what would you (or anyone who cares to look at this post) recommend on how to make R-Candy, like do you know of a specific process in making it that works particularly well?
psyco_1322 Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Potassium Nitrate is about the only "pyro useful" oxidizer that you can get OTC. It's sold as Stump Remover. You can also find Sulfur if you look around, although that is not an oxidizer. You might find black powder rockets to be more easier to make and get working reliably. R-candy usually refers to melted nitrate/sugar/corn syrup fuel. While it makes good engines, it's hard to work with in smaller motors. It's used more by people that shoot HPR rockets with big engines. There are dry sugar fuels that can be rammed, and are more suitable to smaller rockets. Still the performance and power that BP rockets make outperforms the sugar motors. Most formulas just fall under combustion reactions. Thermite (the goldschmidt reaction) is a specific name/classification for metal/metal oxide combustion reactions. Thermite was a scientific discovery, random pyro comps are not.
mikeee Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Look at the SkyLighter website and the TurboPyro kit.This will get you started in basic Pyrotechnics and answer your basic questions.Make sure you read up on what you are doing before you try anything new.Some chemicals are toxic and highly energetic which can cause great pain and problems.Many safety precautions are required when working with some of these materials.Read and Re-read before you try anything new that you have not done before.
SekndAmendment Posted April 29, 2013 Posted April 29, 2013 Also, what would you (or anyone who cares to look at this post) recommend on how to make R-Candy, like do you know of a specific process in making it that works particularly well? Try the rocketry section on this forum. There are some threads that treat different recipes and cooking methods. Also, there are a few YouTube videos that provide useful instructions but please be careful with these, as a good number of them are young children using poor methodology and little to no safety practices. I recommend dedicating a good week or two to reading and researching. You'll learn quite a bit more than you imagined you would need to know. Even though R-candy is essentially step 1 for amatuer rocketry, there are still ways to make dangerous mistakes so I want to emphasize that you learn proper safety principles.
mikeee Posted April 29, 2013 Posted April 29, 2013 Check out the following website for extensive information on black powder, whistle, strobe, hybrid rockets.http://wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/index.html
dagabu Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Hi, have you got an alternative recipe BP rocket ? What does that mean? What kind of "alternative" are you looking for? One that does not have KNO3?
SekndAmendment Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Hi, have you got an alternative recipe BP rocket ?BP recipes are pretty straightforward. There is always charcoal (which is where the "black" in black powder comes from), sulfur, and some form of oxidizer. The most common is KNO3 (potassium nitrate) which is available over the counter as stump remover at almost any hardware or garden store. The relative proportions of each ingredient are typically along the order of 75% KNO3, 10% Sulfur, 15% Charcoal. There are lots of people that use varying proportions of these components such as 60/20/20 or 60/30/10 and each produces slightly different results. I would try reading a few different threads on this forum to find some recipes used by some of the more experienced members. They have some great advice to offer and can usually give a good explanation for why they use the proportions that they use.There is a lot of science involved in determining what the most efficient or powerful ratios are, but for the hobbyist...it doesn't really matter. Just pick a recipe and follow it. As far as alternative BP recipes the only thing I can think of would be to replace the KNO3 with a different oxidizer but I'm not exactly sure why you would want to do that. Stump remover is commercially available and relatively cheap compared to other oxidizing compounds. You could swap out the charcoal/sulfur mix for a processed sugar if you'd like. That brings you into Rocket Candy or Caramel Rocket territory as you are no longer making black powder. The only reason I suggest that is because the effort required to make or find your own charcoal is significantly more involved than simply buying a big bag of sugar. If you're considering purchasing a bag of charcoal briquettes for BBQ'ing I'd advice against it. There are typically some additives in there that don't really help with your purposes. If you're serious about BP I would recommend you invest a little in some metal drums and good lumber to make your own charcoal. You'll also need a ball mill and a good measure of patience. Most of the fun in rocketry comes from the preparation. The flying isn't the fun, it's the celebration of your hard work! I myself am partial to the sugar rockets because you can also make some fantastic smoke bombs from the same ingredients, and a little powdered dye from a hobby shop: (use water instead of dry heating. dry heating only melts the sugar and coats the KN with it. Both are water soluble and mix far better if you dissolve them in water first and then boil it off until to reach the peanut butter consistency. It's easier because it allows you to use rough granules of KN instead of having to refine it into a smooth powder, AND it's safer this way) DO NOT FORGET THE BAKING SODA. It's what slows the burn rate down. Without it you've essentially cored an end burner rocket motor and it will over-pressurize and explode.
cobraray Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 I found chemicals on amazon and they seem pure enough for Rocket use, anyone else tried them yet?
SekndAmendment Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 I found chemicals on amazon and they seem pure enough for Rocket use, anyone else tried them yet?Depends on the compound and the vendor. Just yesterday I purchased a 25 lb bag of KNO3 on eBay.
Mumbles Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 The purity of chemicals involved in making BP really isn't particularly critical. It's hard to make it not burn. If you gave us the links we can confirm it for you, but they're very likely going to be just fine. Charcoal is the most variable component. It all will still burn, but some charcoals give better effects or performance than others.
psyco_1322 Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 That video is total BS. You can't go buy clothes dye and make colored smoke bombs with it. Definitely not using nitrate/sugar smoke. No one actually adds baking soda to the crap either. That mix would never make an end burning rocket, and it's not going to explode with or without a core.
dagabu Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 Also, the making of R-candy on an open flame is just asking for trouble. Never use open flame of any kind when making R-candy P.S. R-candy is not Rocket candy, it is short for Re-crystallized Candy
cobraray Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Thanks! I'm comparing prices and found shipping is very high for most ingredients!
AirCowPeacock Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 What do you mean most ingrediants. You needs potassium nitrate stump remover for $5/1.5 lb from your local hardware or gardening store and sugar from the kitchen.
leedrill Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 that coloured smoke mix is bull for sure ive tried a mix like that and burns way to hot even 50/50 mix is too hot must use common lactose mix with dye this is not related to the post but felt i had to agree with psyco mis information really infuriates me when you are a beginner {bastards wasting my time and chems making vids like that } rant over
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