deadman Posted December 15, 2006 Posted December 15, 2006 Taken from wikipedia:"Chemically it behaves as a weak Lewis acid, and under certain conditions it can act as a mild oxidising agent. It has a crystal structure consisting of polymeric chains of flat CuCl4 units with opposite edges shared. It decomposes to CuCl and Cl2 at 1000 °C." As far as I know it can be made from [Cu + HCl = CuCl2 (aq) + H]. It is a dehydrate so I am not sure if it is useful in pyro comps, but I think it may be a good source for blue and/or purple mixes. If this is moved to another thread it may get more attention, and am not sure if it fit entirley in pyro. I don't mind it here though.
Mumbles Posted December 15, 2006 Posted December 15, 2006 It can't be formed like that. Copper is not readily attacked by acids. HNO3, and hot H2SO4, which will react, act as oxiders in this situation, not acids. To prepare it you need to react HCl with a base, such as copper carbonate or hydroxide or oxide. While it does form hydrates, it can be dehydrated relativly easily. You can tell it's anhydrous when it's brown instead of the turquoise color. Look in the composition section. There are a few that use CuCl2. It may be possible to use them without dehydrating. I'm not sure really.
deadman Posted December 15, 2006 Author Posted December 15, 2006 I see. Ceramics grade CuO or CuCO3 should work great because it is so fine to begin with. Would it be a decent chlorine donor, not by itself, but to help as the coloring agent and not need as much parlon/pvc/your choice? Also, does copper chlorate find many uses in pyro?
ewest Posted December 15, 2006 Posted December 15, 2006 Sure it does, but not really in fireworks. It's one of my favorite chemicals to play with. When sprinkled in campfires it makes really pretty colored flames. It's soluable in water so you can soak wood chips or roll cardboard up really tight and soak those to burn in a campfire. The best thing to do with it is to melt some paraffin wax and dump some Cupric Chloride in it and then spoon it all over some pine cones. They're dry in about 10 minutes and they'll last 30-45 minutes in a campfire giving off red, purple, green, blue flames. As a matter of fact I'm going camping this weekend and I'm bringing 2lbs of it with me! I've been trying to find some different uses for it like forming it in wax and making a candle that when the wick is lit it'll give off a multicolored flame but I can't figure out how to do it and haven't persued it that much.
Mumbles Posted December 15, 2006 Posted December 15, 2006 Copper Chlorate is never used as it is rather explosive, expecially in conjuction with ammonia or ammonium salts.
hashashan Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 actually you can dissolve copper in HCl if you add dropwise some H2O2 and maintain a cool temperature(this is very important.. it may seem that nothing happnes and then suddenly the whole mix just bubles up and spills all over you carpet .. and you start choking because of the chlorine ... nasty thing ) An easier procedure is CuSO4 + 2NaCl = CuCl2 + Na2SO4 can it be one with potassium also?
Mumbles Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 That reaction doesn't work. Everything is soluble, so nothing is favored. You'll just get a big mass of everything pretty much. I'm talking about the CuSO4 and NaCl rxn. Yes, adding high conc H2O2 would work I suppose. A lot easier to just purchase the hydroxide or carbonate and react HCl with that,
ewest Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 If you take a pot of water on a campstove and heat it up then float a disposable tin container in the water to melt wax, it works really great. Then take the pot of wax off the stove and dump a bunch of Cupric Chloride in it and stir it up. Then you can then take a plactic spoon and jam the mix into pine cones, work fast because the wax will set back up fairly quick. HOWEVER, do NOT put the same tin back into the water with Cupric Chloride in it. It will react with the heat, turn red and smoke dissolving the bottom of the disposable tin container and totally ruin a picnic table with wax and Cupric Chloride all over the place. oops.
ewest Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Hey, BTW BlueSquib, How did the candle work out anyway? Does it work well? What color flames does it give off? If it works well, maybe you just found an alternative for a pumpkin candle for Halloween huh?
hashashan Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 That reaction doesn't work. Everything is soluble, so nothing is favored. You'll just get a big mass of everything pretty much. I'm talking about the CuSO4 and NaCl rxn. Yes, adding high conc H2O2 would work I suppose. A lot easier to just purchase the hydroxide or carbonate and react HCl with that, yeah your right. but i use that to make CuCl so i dont really care about the Na2SO4 in there i can wash it off after the CuCl appears. its just an alternative method.
ewest Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 I finally got a pic of a multicolored campfire. You can see the regular flames in the middle, Blue on the right, and Green on the left. Of course it's much better in person Last batch I had, made red and purple flames much more than this batch did. I'm not sure why, but I wish I could figure it out because it was a really neat effect. I did see some Pink this time a few times though.
ewest Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 The colors coming and going is just an effect, I don't think it has anything to do with you mixing the chlorides enough with the wax for the candle. And it kind of comes and goes eventhough the flames are in direct contact with the chemical. Another weird effect in a campfire is I'll throw the chemical on one side of the fire but the color will shoot out the opposite side; really weird. We usually use pine wood for campfires which just burns a normal orange, sometimes you might get a tiny little blue flame if it catches some sap but not like when you throw the Chlorides in the flames. Strontium huh? hmmm, I'll try that next time. I like the red flames mixed in with the blues and greens
Bonny Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 I'm working on pinecones right now. When soaked in CuCl2 solution, even when wet they give nice blue and green flames. The packets of "fantasy fire " or whatever contain CuCl2,CuSO4 and PVC. I'm going to mix some up for this weekend and test out. I plan on starting with 10% PVC...don't really have any idea how much to use. I tossed some SrCl2 in the fire the other night and got some red flames, but the SrCl2 was still a bit wet from making it. I have dried it out and will test this weekend with and without PVC.
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