Bcorso85 Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Hey guys.I know this topic is here there, and everywhere....but at the same time its not. Ive been reading Pyrotechnia IX and X. And asside from getting the proper kraft paper, i think im doing pretty well. Ive made some timed report shells, and though I havent tested them i already know i want to improve them. This is where i get the the point.Does anyone know of alternate spiking patterns?on YouTube the is a report shell that I think is really great, put there are some stars in there too, breaking in a kind of trumpet shape, with a ring of salute inserts. Sorry if I could of described that better. I'm having trouble posting, but the video is titled Colour Beraq Shells posted byPaul Schembri.I know the Maltese have many secrets, but I want to figure this one out. I am assuming that the wider break up top is spiked more tightly, opposed to the bottom of the firework where the break is thin. I am assuming that this is one shell with color and a salute ring inside, and some extra BP on the bottom of the shell ( around the inside spoolette); to push the break upwards. Can anyone help out? Either with this shell, or some different spiking patterns for different shell breaks? Edited April 12, 2013 by Bcorso85
AirCowPeacock Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Well, I know insert shells are generally spiked with fewer horizontals than one normally would, if that helps. I've finally figured out a spike pattern that works for me, but it's really hard to describe.
Mumbles Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 I posted the video below. I wish I could just link to it instead of embedding it. Anyway, the "trumpet" shape is nothing special about construction or spiking. It forms that way because the shell is still traveling upwards at a good rate of speed. The stars are both propelled outwards from the burst, and upwards from the momentum of the shell. If you look at later breaks, they are much more circular or spherical. It's common though to put the ring of salutes or inserts on the end that the shell which has the ignition spolette. Things near the source of ignition tend to be thrown out father than those on the other end.
nater Posted April 13, 2013 Posted April 13, 2013 The only thing I know about the Maltese construction techniques come from the articles on Passfire and some conversations with an FPAG member about them. They spike the shells differently than the Italian-American style outlined in Pyrotechnica IX and XI. The Maltese shells are spiked solid with a thin Jute twine. Other than that, I can only refer someone to joining Passfire and reading the articles about Maltese shell construction.
Bcorso85 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Posted April 16, 2013 Thanks guys, all my inserts blew blind, but its OK. It was only my first try. I placed my insets with fuses placed down on the floor of the spolette end. . The proper # paper has arrived and I'm confident my canisters will become more round. i just need to watch Neds YouTube video a few times on proper spiking of a 3. ive also made some b.p. with paulownia for lift and breaks.
psyco_1322 Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 That's a bummer. Did you at least crossmatch your time fuses, or prime them in any way? Then only aspect of the shell that you should worry about being round is if your have rings of inserts or comets. Don't really expect things to be blown in every direction equally. Feel free to keep asking for help and advice, there's plenty to give out. Taking and posting pictures of your build can really help pinpoint anything that might be flawed in the design.
Bcorso85 Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Thanks a lot. Yes I did cross match the time fuse. I do have a question about grain direction though....when rolling the shell casing with 70# kraft, should the grain be horizontal or verticle?
Mumbles Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Depends on how you're looking at it. The grain will usually be along the shorter dimension of your paper. This makes it run from the top of the shell to the bottom of the shell. I'd check out getting a copy of Pyrotechnica IX as well if you're going to get into cylinder shells. Alternatively, if you already have a copy of Hardt, the same basic information is in there as well.
Bcorso85 Posted April 22, 2013 Author Posted April 22, 2013 Thanks Mumbles. I've got IX and it does get into the grain of the paper, however I didn't see anything about the direction...but I could have misread. Hart's book is on my list! ( just waiting for a sale!)
psyco_1322 Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Grain direction is not a big factor, just use it as it works for you. I find it's best to be able to strips off the roll that are as wide as the case needs to be tall. The length of the strips is always the same, as it's however wide your roll of paper is. Typically that is rolling the case against the grain, not with it.
dan999ification Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 If you want to build traditional italian shells then the methods may be important to control the results but as psyco said its whatever works for you ( ymmv )In some of the maltese vids I've seen they are actually using chicken feed bags for some of the construction which makes me wonder if Kraft with grain direction is actually important, also the shellCasings are normally always lined with a thin card like cereal boxes. no doubt before mass production hand rolled craft casings were probably utilised, I also wonder if they are using the chicken feed as a carrier or just use the bags because they have large free supply's Personally I use recycled paper for nearly everything ( because its free ) you just need more layers but you get a feel over time regardless of what the books say. Dan.
Mumbles Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Grain direction is not a big factor, just use it as it works for you. I find it's best to be able to strips off the roll that are as wide as the case needs to be tall. The length of the strips is always the same, as it's however wide your roll of paper is. Typically that is rolling the case against the grain, not with it. You don't have good quality virgin kraft, do you? It's hard enough to tear along the grain when wet for pasting, much less against it. Folding down becomes a chore if you don't align it correctly either.
psyco_1322 Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 You don't have good quality virgin kraft, do you? It's hard enough to tear along the grain when wet for pasting, much less against it. Folding down becomes a chore if you don't align it correctly either. No, I don't. You ever see that AFN video of the old Italian guy that basically constructs a whole 3 break on the video? That's kinda where I got the grain direction thing from. I'm on a movement, the economy is crashing, everything is being banned, stuffs getting harder to find and more expensive. You gotta start adapting to the available resources, make your own methods, your own traditions. Haha, but really...
Bcorso85 Posted April 23, 2013 Author Posted April 23, 2013 I use recycled kraft paper. Does that matter? Both 30# and 70# tear very easily
psyco_1322 Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 I use recycled kraft paper. Does that matter? Both 30# and 70# tear very easily That's what I use, it's probably 50-60lb stuff, and I get it at Walmart. Recycled paper does not really have a grain direction, and therefore is a weaker paper in general. I do all my cylinder shell building with it. Casings are made from turns equal to the diameter of shell, so a 4" case is made from 4 turns of paper. Same goes for pasting a 4" gets 4 turns of pasted paper after spiking. I use the same paper for both parts. It works for me, so that's what I do.
AirCowPeacock Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 I'm just about to run out of recycled 30# paper. When I do, I'll order some virgin 30#. See little need to get virgin 70#, because I won't be using it to paste. But I'm sick of my recycled 30# pastewraps and lift wraps getting tiny rips (or massive rips) and basically falling apart. Sure I can work with it most of the time--but it's awful. I made a shell a few weeks ago where the pastewrap riped and the liftwrap riped (right over the lift powder!) I had to bandage it. I havn't shot it yet, so we'll see how it goes.
Bcorso85 Posted April 23, 2013 Author Posted April 23, 2013 That's what I use, it's probably 50-60lb stuff, and I get it at Walmart. Recycled paper does not really have a grain direction, and therefore is a weaker paper in general. I do all my cylinder shell building with it. Casings are made from turns equal to the diameter of shell, so a 4" case is made from 4 turns of paper. Same goes for pasting a 4" gets 4 turns of pasted paper after spiking. I use the same paper for both parts. It works for me, so that's what I do. Do you get spherical, or even semi sperical shaped breaks? I'm not loo,king for my canisters to look exactly like my ball shells, but I am striving for very close. I have one made with the new papers, but haven't shot it yet. The Boston attack has kind of held me back. ...kinda have a nosy neighbor that likes to watch out the window. All I need is for that guy to get weird on me.
Mumbles Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 Recycled kraft can certainly be made to work. Maltese shell construction is based entirely on recycled materials. If you're trying to follow more Italo-American (Fulcanelli style) production, then there might need to be a little tweaking of number of layers or slightly modified procedures.
psyco_1322 Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 Do you get spherical, or even semi sperical shaped breaks? I'm not loo,king for my canisters to look exactly like my ball shells, but I am striving for very close. I have one made with the new papers, but haven't shot it yet. The Boston attack has kind of held me back. ...kinda have a nosy neighbor that likes to watch out the window. All I need is for that guy to get weird on me. I think they come out looking pretty decent most the time. Remember they are cylinders...ball shells look round because they are round, so don't expect a cylinder shell to look perfectly round in every dimension. If you are expecting to get complete symmetrical breaks, you are building them for the wrong reason. Have a look, tell me what you think... http://www.youtube.com/user/psyco1322
dan999ification Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 I've seen plenty of symmetrical peony breaks from cans, it's all in the flash and partly arrangement of the stars. I do prefer the circular flower expanding out though with cylinders, you also have more control over the flowers face you don't get with ball shells. They each have their benefits and uses. Dan.
Bcorso85 Posted April 24, 2013 Author Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) I think they come out looking pretty decent most the time. Remember they are cylinders...ball shells look round because they are round, so don't expect a cylinder shell to look perfectly round in every dimension. If you are expecting to get complete symmetrical breaks, you are building them for the wrong reason. Have a look, tell me what you think... http://www.youtube.com/user/psyco1322 Excellent. Round, but full of effects that can't be fit into a ball shell. That is why I want to build canisters well. I want to effects that can be fit inside, and still have beautiful breaks. However I think I do need a run down on break charges...not out of layzness but to save on valuable oxidizers. they seem to behave very different than when they are filled into a ball shell. Edited April 24, 2013 by Bcorso85
Mumbles Posted April 24, 2013 Posted April 24, 2013 Nearly all cylinder shells are broken with granular black powder. Some people will dust their BP with slow flash, but that's about as fancy as it gets. I've seen and done plenty of experiments with other compositions or rice hull coated BP, etc. I come back to granular BP every time for typical shells. Don't forget to make plenty of polverone. Cylinder shells eat that stuff up.
Bcorso85 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Posted April 25, 2013 Ok thanks mumbles. Now a weak polverone should be granulated fine....and filled inbetween the stars in orderto make the shells solid correct? I have done this on my untested canister and used paulownia lift powder for the cannulle. In appearance....th shell looks better than anyone i have made yet and its nice and solid.
Mumbles Posted April 25, 2013 Posted April 25, 2013 Yep, that's how you use polverone. The use of it tends to be forgotten or left out in a lot of stuff I see online now-a-days. While you can definitely get away without using in smaller shells, it becomes immensely important in bigger shells and multibreaks where the integrity of the shell is more crucial. Polverone is pretty much just a flammable filler. Even though polverone literally means "coarse powder" or "large powder", the size you granulate it to is up to personal preference. I personally granulate it through a 4 mesh screen. After it dries I grade the powder. I pass it over the screen I granulated it with (4 mesh), and a majority will pass through. Separate and save what sits on the screen. I then place it over a 12 or 16 mesh screen to separate the finer stuff. The majority of your polverone will sit here. I use this to fill shells. I then take whatever passes and use it to fill smaller shells or to fill around inserts. Usually I'll pass it over a 30 mesh screen or something to remove the dust and use that for priming stars later. It adds a little rougher of a surface. The stuff that sits on top of the screen has an important purpose. It's typically used after you've loaded and and packed in all the stars/inserts. This really coarse stuff is placed on top of everything and used to flatten and level interior of the shell to place the disc on. I actually have a 6 mesh screen as well. I sometimes do the grading through that so I get more of this coarse stuff.
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