Goex 4f Lift and burst charge

[Psycodelic]

Hello, first of all im sorry if this is in the wrong section, i cant find the beginners area. I'm new to this, i just finished my first batch of stars which turned out very well, i dont have a ball mill so i dont think i can make suitable bp that will work, all ive seen is skylighters red gum bp which i dont no much about. I've been doing a lot of reading trying to get everything right but I'm just not sure about what to do here. So basically my question is, I just purchased goex 4f powder and I'm wondering if this will work for lifting and breaking my shells? If not, then any suggestions would be great, thanks.

[pyrojig]

Hey, making your own bp is where it becomes fun. You CAN make decent bp without a mill. But if you are serious, you need to find a mill (homemade, harbor freight , or pro). To answer the Q. yes you can use Geox bp to do it all. 4f is not pyro 4f. You want cannon grade , or a very course powder. The 4f rifle powder is going to slam your shells and over break them.

 

The skylighter bp is fair. You need a coffee mill, and individually mill each chem to a talk fine powder. screen this several times through a kitchen colander , wet it with 5% dextrin added , or use the red gum method. I prefer the dextrin due to cost and easy access to materials. You can make your own dextrin. Rub this putty through a course screen like you find on small cages or construction grade mesh for drains, vents etc.( 1/4"). let dry for several days on a drying screen. You also can use the screened meal powder to coat rice hulls or crispies instead of making granulated powder.

[Psycodelic]

Thanks for the quick response. I'm defiantly planing on getting a mill at some point, I just didn't want to jump right in and spend a lot of money right of the bat. I want to complete a few shells first.. So the 2f would have been a better choice, this may be a stupid question but is there anyway to granulate the 4f powder after I get it? I've got dextrin. So could i wet it add dextrin and screen it? Could I also cover rice hulls with it as well? I feel like it would work but maybe I'm mistaken.

[pyrojig]

Not worth powdering /granulating the 2f. Try to find cannon powder if you can. If not 2f will work, but may still be too hot. It is pressed bp, so it is very dense, and will be work to reduce. mixing with water to make a paste then using a toro method you can coat your rice hulls for burst . I guess you could do the same for granulating it, by wetting it to a dough, then rubbing it through a screen(for a larger grain granulated powder).. IMO it is not worth the extra work, but do what works for ya.

[Mumbles]

What sized shells are you trying to make?

 

Just a quick primer. There are two major grading systems of Black Powders as far as granule size goes. There is the FA series, which is a blasting grade that we tend to use (cheaper), and there is a sporting grade which is usually designated Fg. The more f's the finer it is. Cannon grade sporting powder is about equal to 2FA. 1Fg is about equal to 4FA. Your 4Fg is probably fine enough to directly coat onto hulls if you wanted. I would agree that it's probably too fine for most lifting applications. For that I'd use no finer than 2Fg, but 1Fg would preferred if you can find it.

 

http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/help/Black_Powder_Size_Charts.asp

 

These screened BP's like the skyligher's relies on having very finely powdered materials, and very intimate incorporation. I suggest using the 100mesh screen that they recommend when mixing it. It will work, but you might need to use more of it than you'll see recommended in some places. Most recommendations are based off at least commercial quality BP. It's not difficult to make BP which out performs commercial, but doing so without a mill is probably more of a challenge.

[Psycodelic]

I will be making 2.5" shells, so nothing huge yet. Thats great I was hoping I could just coat the hulls with the 4f without doing anything to it. Ill look around for f1. I could certainly try the skylighter kit if this doesn't work out with the goex, i was just worried it wouldn't be up to par until i got a mill. Could I possibly even do a mixture of the two for lift, so as to not be as fast? Or does that not make any sense to do that? Thanks again for the help guys.

[cogbarry]

I use 2Fg for lifting smaller shells but for larger shells, I use cannon or better, 2FA. I suspect 1Fg may be better than 2Fg now that Mumbles mentioned it. I break all my shells with my own BP, usually on rice hulls. I could make my own BP for lift but I make small batches and don't have a nearby location for testing. Consistency is important when it comes to lift charges.

 

You can get an inexpensive mill from Harbor Freight. I recommend the one made for two jars (the 6 lb mill) and run it with only one jar filled. The lead media is heavy and you will burn out the 3 lb mill. Been there.

 

You could also use the mill to make fine powder BP (BP meal) out of your 4Fg with this mill to coat your rice hulls.

 

You should read up on ball mill safety though. Mill explosions do happen.

Edited March 28, 2013 by cogbarry

[Oinikis]

i suggest you making or buying a ballmill. once i had some commercial powder. it's very dense, so it would be wasteful to fill shells with, so you need to coat rice hulls or something. When you have your own powder, you can make any granular size you want, also you could make black match and stuff. there are quite a few applications where ungranulated meal powder is required. i'm not sure, but homemade can even be cheaper. also i used to make good enough powder without a ballmill. but i didn't liked grinding 10 mins with mortar and pestle for like 20 grams, so i made a mill. but as cogbarry said, mill explosions do happen. Edited March 28, 2013 by Oinikis

[Psycodelic]

Well it sounds like I may as well get a mill then, and I've got the 2fg that I will be using for lift for now.

[dynomike1]

If you are going to make your own bp, go ahead and get some Paulownia charcoal you wont be happy with your bp till you do.