Buying My First Ball Mill

[foxsavage]

I'm going to be buying my first ball mill soon and I wanted to get some feedback about which one would be the best one to get. I will be using it mostly for BP but I'll probably mill other chemicals in the future. I saw the cheap 6lb ones on Harbor Freight but I don't think it will last and I don't want to have to buy another or constantly replace the belts. The other one I was looking at was this one http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/thumler-s-tumbler-model-b-high-speed-7.html, it looks really good but I haven't seen any feedback on people using it for BP so I wanted to make sure before I buy it. The extra jars for the Thumbler were around $100 so I was also wondering if it would be feasible to make my own extras from pvc or wood for things other than BP? It will be set up in my back yard which is about 20' x 50'. It will be in a ditch surrounded by sandbags.

[mikeee]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/35lb-cap-Rock-Tumbler-Ball-Mill-Case-Debur-Polish-/261171073546?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccf02520a

 

You can also build your own ball mill, there are several websites that have directions on building one.

You can build your own jars out of PVC pipe and pvc fittings very easily.

Try to get or build a ball mill that can use generic jars if possible.

If you build your own ball mill you can get different pulleys to change speeds if needed.

You can also use different sized rubber sleeves to change speed on the roller shafts.

Also depends on how much powder you plan on milling at a time.

The 6lb harbor freight ball mill is limited on the amount of product you can mill at one time.

[dynomike1]

Don't worry about the Harbour frieght mill. I have been running one about three months 24hrs. a day with no problems.BP i run 8oz's 6-8hrs. granulate it and it burns fast enough to blow my torch out. I am going to build one as soon as i find a motor that's all i like.

[Bobosan]

Purchased 15lb drum for the model B Thumblers from Pyrocreations.com but don't see it listed on their site anymore. It was very reasonable at $75. You can occasionally find one on Ebay. The 15lb drum and liner pricing from Tru-Square Metal Products is;

 

201 B Barrel, Metal Hexagon with Liner 139.24

201L B Barrel Liner with Lid Gasket 56.23

 

I highly recommend the alumina milling media from Pyrocreations for use in the Harbor Freight 6lb tumblers.

[foxsavage]

That's good news, 8 oz at a time will be enough for me. I bought 1lb. of BP when I first started and it took me a couple of months to use it up. I'm only going to be making shells up to 2" for the first couple of years so I don't think I'll need a bigger one. That one on ebay looks safer than the Thumbler, I was a little worried about using a steel barrel.

[foxsavage]

Purchased 15lb drum for the model B Thumblers from Pyrocreations.com but don't see it listed on their site anymore. It was very reasonable at $75. You can occasionally find one on Ebay. The 15lb drum and liner pricing from Tru-Square Metal Products is;

 

201 B Barrel, Metal Hexagon with Liner 139.24

201L B Barrel Liner with Lid Gasket 56.23

 

I highly recommend the alumina milling media from Pyrocreations for use in the Harbor Freight 6lb tumblers.

 

I thought hardened lead was the safest, I will look into the alumina.

[Bobosan]

I thought hardened lead was the safest, I will look into the alumina.

 

Hardened lead media IS the safest for milling black powder. Other safe media material would be brass and I believe copper.

 

That being said, I use the alumina media for milling separate single chems in the 6lb tumblers. Other people use alumina to mill BP and certain mixed chems with success. When I get prilled chems like KNO3, I'll use the alumina to mill them since it helps lower lead contamination and won't discoloring the KNO3. Depending on the chems being milled, you should also have separate drums/liners so there is no chance of cross contamination and/or chemical reaction. You can't really wash the drums clean enough.

 

There has been discussion about alumina media creating small sparks during tumbling but I believe this is due to inferior grade media that contain impurities.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Bobosan

[foxsavage]

Hardened lead media IS the safest for milling black powder. Other safe media material would be brass and I believe copper.

 

That being said, I use the alumina media for milling separate single chems in the 6lb tumblers. Other people use alumina to mill BP and certain mixed chems with success. When I get prilled chems like KNO3, I'll use the alumina to mill them since it helps lower lead contamination and won't discoloring the KNO3. Depending on the chems being milled, you should also have separate drums/liners so there is no chance of cross contamination and/or chemical reaction. You can't really wash the drums clean enough.

 

There has been discussion about alumina media creating small sparks during tumbling but I believe this is due to inferior grade media that contain impurities.

I'll get a set of each then, probably a couple sets of alumina for oxidizers and fuels and a couple extra barrels. Can I use one set for all oxidizers and another set for all fuels?

[Bobosan]

If you get the HF 6lb ball mill, those tumblers could be used to mill any or all of the primary ingredients of black powder - potassium nitrate, sulfur and charcoal. Mark them for black powder use only. Media can be the lead, brass, copper or a good quality alumina. Mark them for black powder use only.

 

Beyond that you could look into additional drums and media. It can get expensive but it's the safest way. For example, you would never want to use the same jar or media to mill potassium nitrate and then later some chlorates...even after a good washing. Both of those are oxidizers are bad news together.

 

Do some searching in the forum here on black powder, ball mills, chemical incompatibilities, etc. Lots of good info here and on Skylighter.com for basic tutorials on making black powder.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Bobosan

[foxsavage]

If you get the HF 6lb ball mill, those tumblers could be used to mill any or all of the primary ingredients of black powder - potassium nitrate, sulfur and charcoal. Mark them for black powder use only. Media can be the lead, brass, copper or a good quality alumina. Mark them for black powder use only.

 

Beyond that you could look into additional drums and media. It can get expensive but it's the safest way. For example, you would never want to use the same jar or media to mill potassium nitrate and then later some chlorates...even after a good washing. Both of those are oxidizers are bad news together.

 

Do some searching in the forum here on black powder, ball mills, chemical incompatibilities, etc. Lots of good info here and on Skylighter.com for basic tutorials on making black powder.

Thanks for all the info. I've read all the stuff on Skylighter and I read as much as possible on here and Passfire. I've also read Introductory to Practical Pyrotechnics by Tom Perigrin but that was about 10 years ago and I can't find it now. I don't think I'll ever want to work with chlorates, maybe perchlorate after I get a lot more experience but just BP and charcoal stars for now. Probably colored stars in the future. I was just wondering if I could use the same jar for strontium nitrate, barium nitrate, barium sulfate, calcium sulfate and other non chlorate oxidizers or if I would need one jar and set of media for each type of oxidizer.

[Bobosan]

I'm going to defer your questions on milling those chems to the members who have more experience with those chems. Hopefully they will jump in here.

 

I have not progressed to that point as there is still much to learn about the fine art of producing excellent black powder. Much can be accomplished without the chems you mention, however, for certain colored stars you will need those. From my experience in acquiring some of those chems and from what others have said on this forum site, the color producing nitrates should already be fine enough to use without ball milling.

[Mumbles]

Most oxidizers can be milled in the same jar, following a good cleaning. The two that generally cause issues are potassium chlorate and ammonium perchlorate. Those two have special precautions, and are generally best to have dedicated jars for them. If you're concerned about something, it's always best to ask. If you're from the US at least, most commercial oxidizers come fine enough for use as-is, except maybe for potassium nitrate and a certain variety of strontium nitrate.

 

The same goes with fuels. Most of them are compatible with one another. Nothing particular comes to mind as being incompatible, but you'll want to be wary of cross contamination. For instance, sulfur and charcoal can be milled in the same jar. It's just good to keep in mind that the charcoal will probably have some sulfur in it so it might not be ideal to be using with potassium chlorate or something like that.

 

The harbor freight mills are decent in my experience. After you get a good belt, they should run with minimal maintenance for quite some time. I like having several sizes of mills, or at least jars. If you only need to mill a small amount of something, you'll need a smaller jar. It's hard on the media if you undercharge a larger jar.

[foxsavage]

Most oxidizers can be milled in the same jar, following a good cleaning. The two that generally cause issues are potassium chlorate and ammonium perchlorate. Those two have special precautions, and are generally best to have dedicated jars for them. If you're concerned about something, it's always best to ask. If you're from the US at least, most commercial oxidizers come fine enough for use as-is, except maybe for potassium nitrate and a certain variety of strontium nitrate.

 

The same goes with fuels. Most of them are compatible with one another. Nothing particular comes to mind as being incompatible, but you'll want to be wary of cross contamination. For instance, sulfur and charcoal can be milled in the same jar. It's just good to keep in mind that the charcoal will probably have some sulfur in it so it might not be ideal to be using with potassium chlorate or something like that.

 

The harbor freight mills are decent in my experience. After you get a good belt, they should run with minimal maintenance for quite some time. I like having several sizes of mills, or at least jars. If you only need to mill a small amount of something, you'll need a smaller jar. It's hard on the media if you undercharge a larger jar.

Thanks, that is very helpful. Do you know a good place to get belts for the Harbor Freight mill? I assume the one that comes with it won't be good.

[Algenco]

I ran a HF mill for 6 months basically non stop never had a belt problem, it still has the original belt.

If you have one that chews up belts I'll bet it an alignment problem

They come with extra belts

[dynomike1]

Mine came with 5 belts, still using same one. Mumbles will argue this but i prefer ceramic media over lead, one reason it last longer and seems to me it breaks down chemicals better, maybe the different in the shape between the lead and ceramic. I have milled Potassium Perchlorate, Barium nitrate, and Potassium Nitrate in the same jar with no problems. Edited February 19, 2013 by dynomike1

[foxsavage]

I guess I'll go down to the local Harbor Freight to buy one so I can return it if it chews up the belts then even though it's a bit cheaper to order online.

[Shadowcat1969]

I too work in small scale for now, and I bought one of the HF mills and have been using it for a couple of years without changing the belt yet. I would suggest finding out from the local store when their next "sidewalk" sale is. That's when I bought mine and I got it for $38.

 

Or at least find a sales flier (probably one right inside the door at the store) they all have a "20% off one item" coupon in them.

 

I also made myself extra mill jars with 3" PVC pipe that fit the HF mill perfectly. That way I have a jar for BP and a jar for each of the individual chemicals that I never want to chance getting mixed.

[dynomike1]

Don't forget you have to buy media to.

[Bobosan]

Keep in mind if you overload the HF 6lb mill you will end up breaking belts. It's designed to run two 3lb containers but I always run one at a time. If you find that belts break with one container, there may be an alignment and/or tension issue with the belt drive pulleys.

 

Check these thread for more info;

 

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/7835-usapyros-guide-to-harbor-freight-ball-mill-modification/

 

http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to/ball-mill.asp

[foxsavage]

Thanks for that, I'll make sure to run only one jar at a time.

[nater]

I have also been using the 6lb tumbler from HF. It works great for small batches and I have not had any issues with the belts. I do only run one loaded jar at once. Take the time to set up the alignment and tension properly and you should be fine. It was not ready to go out of the box. I have been using lead for BP and ceramic for single chems. I have a larger mill that I still need to get media for, but I think I'm just going to run it with ceramic for now.

[Zerohour]

One more for the Harbor Freight mill. The 3 pound machine works fine and is currently on sale for $39.99. At half the cost of comparable mills, I'm not too concerned with it failing.

[Throwingbrick]

Does anyone know where to get a ball mill/rock tumbler about a 3lb one in sydney australia?