lokys Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Hi , Does anybody have any ideas how they made shell like this ?? Look from second shell. They call them : ghoast shell's... amazing effect. maybe they take different size cores then they start roll stars ? I can't find any information about them..
Pretty green flame Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Looks to me that the green core is always the same size as it has more or less the same burn time. I'm guessing the blue composition is rolled on in different thicknesses depending on the location in the shell.
Mumbles Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I only know one amateur who can make them, and they pale in comparison to shells like those. That has to be one of the best ghost shells I've ever seen. Wow. From what the guy who's made them tells me, it's extremely precise star rolling and sizing to do it. It's easy in concept, but difficult in practice. I've heard rumors that the best of the best Japanese exhibition shells are sized to 0.1mm. That might be overkill, but you might start to see the level of precision required. Using faster burning stars might help to make up for any imperfections in sizing, and make the transition look smoother.
JFeve81 Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 Ghost shells are awesome. I like the third one in this vid the best.
dynomike1 Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 I got two questions. 1. Did anyone click on the picture in the bottom right hand corner of the video? 2. Was those shells real? Pretty impressive shots.
Seymour Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 The video: Japanese Art ~Fireworks~ ? Yep, that's all very impressive, but all real.
NightHawkInLight Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 That was an especially nice ghost shell. As Mumbles said, it's a simple concept, but I can't imagine the tedious precision required. It certainly would take a master roller to get right. If I were to try it I would probably search for comps that burn bright out of a thin walled tube and try just pressing comp in accurate increments so the stars end up looking like little wrapped crosettes that burn from the open end down. I don't think there'd be much hope for me to get it right with a roller.
AirCowPeacock Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 No matter how it's done, I have to think alot of stars are going to get tossed for what would normally be a very minimal imperfection.
Algenco Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 I plan on attempting a Ghost shell later in the Spring.Been thinking about them for months
propellanttech Posted February 3, 2013 Posted February 3, 2013 Wow......just wow. I can't imagine the work which was required to make those looks so perfect. If you were to build more than one (best use of your time), it would still take months of rolling (weeks at least) stars. Stars with different layer thicknesses...... I hate to say it, but I won't be attempting one of those at the moment. PT
JFeve81 Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 I got two questions. 1. Did anyone click on the picture in the bottom right hand corner of the video? 2. Was those shells real? Pretty impressive shots. Clicked on it after reading this post. LOL. In that video the one at the 40 second mark was gorgeous. Reminded me of a snowflake. Beautiful.
chonk Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) Looks to me that the green core is always the same size as it has more or less the same burn time. I'm guessing the blue composition is rolled on in different thicknesses depending on the location in the shell. They actually are different. They just use a really fast burning star comp that makes it look like they all have the same burn duration. Looking carefully, you'll see that the first segment to change green burns green for a longer time than the last segment to turn green. The flame envelope seems to be a lot larger on that first segment of green. The different sizes of the green core is then coated with blue until all of them have reached the same size this is a long exposure photo of a shell using stars made in a similar manner by the same company but in a ring formation. or Edited July 14, 2023 by chonk
SharkWhisperer Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 "Looking carefully, you'll see that the first segment to change green burns green for a longer time than the last segment to turn green. The flame envelope seems to be a lot larger on that first segment of green. The different sizes of the green core is then coated with blue until all of them have reached the same size" Still it requires some precise star sizing and arrangement within the shell. In the first ring shot you posted, it looks as if there's 4 different core sizes each for the red & green core effects. So that's 8 different star batches to roll, keep track of, and arrange (not counting the inner ring effect, so 9 different stars in total). Maybe more meticulous than difficult. Good eye.
Edwin Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) Typing from my other account from my phone but yes, it really does require precise star rolling. With the new shells this company has come out with, I've seen them do shells with eight to even twelve segments, some of them even double staged. Sometimes, they would have a smaller amount of segments like 3-4 if they want to make an ghost effect that has like 5 repeating stages. Since this is either a 5-6 inch shell, the stars would be around 12 mm. So for example the six segments, cores would be 1mm apart. So they would be 3,4,5,6,7,8mm accordingly. Then they coat it in blue comp till all of them have reached 12 mm. *These measurements are speculative but they could be what the company actually uses*. For the 12 segment one they would have to add .5 mm segments since they look like they run throughout the shell faster. In theory, it's quite simple but to execute it is a whole another ball game Edited July 14, 2023 by Edwin
Edwin Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) Fun fact, the company (marugo)that made this ghost shell has recently won the omagari fireworks competition last year, which is one of the more prestigious competitions in Japan. They should have their own special program this year in the tournament. I'm pretty sure winners of one year, get a whole program of their own the following year. Edited July 14, 2023 by Edwin
Edwin Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) Anyway this is an example of a eight segment triple staged ghost shell in different layouts with the same stars. Two shells are being fired off, most likely 12 inch. https://youtube.com/shorts/g5CRT2B-xLo?feature=share Notice that in these multiple staged stars that the variation in burn duration only occurs at the last stage. Edited July 14, 2023 by Edwin
chonk Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) Regarding the placement of the stars, I will be using the shell in the beginning of the thread as a reference. Say there are 6 segments, as described above previously, dividing the shell into six parts, each part would be dedicated for one segment and for each part would have two "rings" of that particular star. rings is referring to this: (also from marugo, although not 100% sure if he is making a ghost shell or not, but notice how there are two complete "rings" and he is currently working on the third one) so there would be 12 "rings" on the entire shell plus one star in the very center on each half if the starting ring has six stars, which forms a honeycomb pattern (note the starting ring in the picture has 5 and instead of a star in the center, he uses a piece of tissue rolled into a ball)the size of the stars would have to based on the circumference of the inside of the shell casing. How to find the size of the star in a ghost shell?as an example, a 5 inch shell casing. it has an id of around 110 mm.first find the circumference of the inner part of casing, which is 346mm (entire shell)divide it by two, which is 173mm (hemi)and for a 12 ring ghost shell with 6 stars in the starting ring, there would be 13 stars lining the casing edge to edge (imagining the casing as transparent looking in from the side)then you divide the 173/13 which is around 13mm, meaning the stars have to be around 13 mm. Edited July 14, 2023 by chonk
SharkWhisperer Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 it's interesting that dude is wearing a mask to prevent inhaling particulates but no eye protection in case it goes up somehow--makes you wonder if there's just no chance of getting away if a fire starts...
Edwin Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) it's interesting that dude is wearing a mask to prevent inhaling particulates but no eye protection in case it goes up somehow--makes you wonder if there's just no chance of getting away if a fire starts...I think the video was shot in like 2021 I just took a screenshot Edited July 14, 2023 by Edwin
Zumber Posted September 15 Posted September 15 On 1/31/2013 at 11:47 PM, lokys said: Hi , Does anybody have any ideas how they made shell like this ?? Look from second shell. They call them : ghoast shell's... amazing effect. maybe they take different size cores then they start roll stars ? I can't find any information about them.. If I want to creat sliding effect from left to right( it depends on position of shell in sky when fired) how do I arrange stars in hemispheres? do I need to make kraft paper compartments in hemisphere? ( total 8 partitions) Plan is to use follwing stars.
Crazy Swede Posted September 16 Posted September 16 If it is a peony effect you are striving for you shouldn't have to build the shell in any special way. But of course you have to keep track of each individual batch of stars when placing them in both shell halves and preferably start at the bottom of each shell half with the first and last "slide" of the colour transition. The stars need to be of a very precise final size to perfectly fill out the hemispheres. I do not know if the Japanese use some special tricks, like placing black or inert stars in every second row to make the transition even more clear, but I doubt they place them in separate compartments? Maybe though, it might help.
Zumber Posted September 16 Posted September 16 Thank you but Still I am confused. In hemisphere we put star near to time fuse first and then towards equator of hemispheres. how do we arrange that particular stars (no 3 & 4 from left side in above attatched image) then??
pyrokid Posted September 17 Posted September 17 All stars in a single layer warimono shell should be equidistant from the central point of ignition i.e. the "time fuse". The roundness of a spherical shell break is a result of the spherical symmetry of its contents. The Japanese know this, and in many cases employ novel techniques to maintain symmetry. Shimizu describes a method wherein the shell is more or less assembled from the inside out, using layers of thin paper to separate layers of contents. Strawboard hemispheres are a shortcut intended to facilitate cheap mass production. It's possible that they are not suited to precision effects such as ghost shells.
Crazy Swede Posted September 17 Posted September 17 @Zumber, I’m not sure what you are asking? In the crude general picture you posted, I would have the time fuse to the left or right. You do have to plan for a suitable star size and if one transition should only be represented by one “ring” of stars. It will of course be impossible to place out the stars in perfect circles but it will still produce the transition wave if the stars are carefully done in many separate batches. What size of shell are you planning? I’m thinking it will be very finicky doing this smaller than 8”.
Zumber Posted September 17 Posted September 17 34 minutes ago, Crazy Swede said: @Zumber, I’m not sure what you are asking? In the crude general picture you posted, I would have the time fuse to the left or right. You do have to plan for a suitable star size and if one transition should only be represented by one “ring” of stars. It will of course be impossible to place out the stars in perfect circles but it will still produce the transition wave if the stars are carefully done in many separate batches. What size of shell are you planning? I’m thinking it will be very finicky doing this smaller than 8”. 3 or 4 ring per transition and in 6 or 8 inch shell.
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