Black Powder Thread #1

[PoorBoy]

thanks guys on the pricing info, $1 lb for charcoal at humphreys is awesome, I went through about 3 lbs this month and am depleted of my hardwood charcoal and am tapping into my good charcoal supply. I need to order 10 lbs soon and thats like a $30-$50 savings based on normal costs. I'll check out humphreys.

 

Making shells = 5 months labor

Savings from new supplier = $50

-----------------------------------------

Awesome 4th of July = Priceless

[apcqazwsx]

Has anyone ever used sulfur pellets to make bp? The garden store near me sells dusting sulfur in 1 pound containers and much cheaper sulfur pellets in 50 lb bags. They claim it is still 90% sulfur.

[Gunzway]

Has anyone ever used sulfur pellets to make bp? The garden store near me sells dusting sulfur in 1 pound containers and much cheaper sulfur pellets in 50 lb bags. They claim it is still 90% sulfur.

 

90% purity is not pure enough for black powder. You can get away with precursors possibly being of 97% or 98% purity (such as fertilizer KNO₃) and it won't adversely affect the composition. I would say a purity of 90% is too low and it would render your black powder to be very poor. Maybe if there was a way to purify it, it might be a good source.

[dagabu]

NHIL, the non-milled BP looks decent and apparently will lift nicely. That's the good thing about lift vs burst. With lift, the speed of burn isn't as critical as for a burst charge. So long as it's decently fast, the gas volume generated is what lofts the shell.

 

I'll bet that BP would also function in a core-burner at the otherwise too-hot 75:15:10 ratio.

 

I find it pretty interesting that there have been a number of alternate BP methods created in the last few years. Before, it was either crappy green mix, CIA method, or mill.

 

On dextrin - it seems that soooo many recipes call for it, that, or SGRS. They were probably using SGRS 800 years ago. I think we can do better in these modern days with non-aqueous solvent activated resins and binders. Red gum is a good start. I know some guys think it doesn't bind, but I am convinced it does work well. I know the Chinese are using all sorts of modern glues and resins in their production, probably both because it works better, AND it dries faster. Time = money.

 

CMC gum, red gum, synthetic rubbers, and I'm sure dozens of resins that I can't think of off the top of my head. The HP rocket guys will know of these; I think they all have potential for a number of pyro tasks.

 

I have not talked to Jim in a few years now but you can send James Yawn an email about the latest resins he and others are using for fuel binders now.

 

I am on the fence with binders, I really like the commercial dextrin I got from Cracker last year, it is night and day compared to homemade stuff and dries rock hard. The CMC I also got from Cracker is incredible for pulling match, coating rice hulls and binding comets.

 

I have also used PVC cement for priming, stars and comets. WELDER glue is also great for an "instant" binder when I need to test a comp in the star gun.

[Bonny]

90% purity is not pure enough for black powder. You can get away with precursors possibly being of 97% or 98% purity (such as fertilizer KNO₃) and it won't adversely affect the composition. I would say a purity of 90% is too low and it would render your black powder to be very poor. Maybe if there was a way to purify it, it might be a good source.

 

90% pure sulfur will work just fine for BP. I'd imagine it won't be the hottest/fastest, but will be OK for lift/burst etc... I used to use garden dusting sulfur of 90-92% purity with no problems. Even after changing over to purer sulfur I did not notice any difference as far as lift went, still use the same amounts.

[dagabu]

90% purity is not pure enough for black powder. You can get away with precursors possibly being of 97% or 98% purity (such as fertilizer KNO₃) and it won't adversely affect the composition. I would say a purity of 90% is too low and it would render your black powder to be very poor. Maybe if there was a way to purify it, it might be a good source.

 

Please understand that I am speaking from my own experiences and should in no way be indicative of your results:

 

I found the sulfur pellets to be very difficult to grind down to a usable powder but following advice found here and on Passfire, I ran them through a meat grinder and then a heavy ball mill.

 

It was suggested by a chemist (maybe a guy we all know here) that I drop it all in a bucket of water (distilled) after I milled it down to separate the clay and binders from the sulfur.

 

It worked very well, concerned with the sulfur being acid, I took a sample and it turned out that it was slightly acidic at 7.2 but well within acceptable range. I found that when mixing the dust into the water, that the sulfur almost floated on top of the water and wouldnt sink down to the bottom so I put a lid on the bucket and left it outside overnight.

 

The next morning the powder had all fallen to the bottom and the liquid on top was mostly clear so I pulled it off and disposed of it until I was getting yellow in the water.

 

I decided that I wanted to see what would happen if I just let it dry in the bucket and after a couple weeks, there was about an inch of dried sulfur on top (dried into alligator skin chunks) and a 1/4" layer of gray clay on the bottom.

 

Making two batches of Red Gum/Denatured Alcohol BP side by side, one with the reclaimed sulfur and the other with pure rubber-makers neutral sulfur and coating rice hulls 7:1 with it showed that the result was identical to the naked eye.

 

I did not try to use it as is nor did I use the mill powder before whetting it.

 

IMHE

[swervedriver]

7.2 would be alkaline dummy

 

 

haha, just bustin on ya. I'm splitting hairs there, that would be neutral enough for gub'ment work!

[dagabu]

Sorry, I am a metal smith, Mumbles is the chemistry guy.

[apcqazwsx]

Thanks for the help guys.

 

So is the production of small quantities of black powder legal in the US? As long as its not stored? Or is a license and proper magazine needed?

[dagabu]

Federally, you can make and use BP legally for your own legal purposes. State and locally, probably not. If you want an answer but don't want to open yourself up too far, send an email using an anonymous email service to your state fire Marshall and ask them your questions. Just do so at a public Wi-Fi place so you don't expose your home IP address.

 

Personally, I just called up my state fire Marshall from my home phone and had a good 15 minute chat with him about making BP for my canon. He forwarded our conversation on to my city fire Marshall and we talked for about a half an hour and walked the property and looked for a safe location for the BP for storage.

 

He decided to limit me to 20# and that I had to store it in a magazine made of wood (local guy, not federal rules here) not less then 1" thick. He also told me that there was a gray line that allowed homemade BP to be carried in your POV in original containers.

 

That was ONE MANS ruling, Federally, that is not true, you cannot remove it from your property without DOT restrictions being met. I am fortunate that I have understanding people around me and a licensed driver that can transport my pyro to club shoots legally.

[trag]

Has anyone ever used sulfur pellets to make bp? The garden store near me sells dusting sulfur in 1 pound containers and much cheaper sulfur pellets in 50 lb bags. They claim it is still 90% sulfur.

 

I have not ordered from them (yet) but this looks promising as a affordable source of sulfur (~$2/lb). And if there's something I've overlooked, I'd love to ahve it pointed out:

 

 

 

Sulfur on-line

[apcqazwsx]

The sulfur pellets can be had for $0.50 a pound. If they can make usable black powder, they seem ideal.

[dagabu]

Buy a little bag first and test them. I got mine from a OTR driver that grabbed a bag for me.

 

http://tucson.craigslist.org/grd/1701644029.html

[Gunzway]

Fair dinkum.

 

The source of my sulfur that was around 90% purity (possibly a little less) wasn't sulfur pellets and I suspect the contaminants must be different to that of sulfur pellets. Just from my experience, I did find a large difference between the quality of this sulfur compared to my pure version. If it works fine and there’s not much of an adverse effect, go for it! Now that I think about it, sulfur isn't that crucial and it would just effect the speed slightly as well as the gases. My apologies. I suppose this is all going off what other chemicals are with the sulfur. I'm not sure what was with mine, some other gardening stuff... but it seems to do something funny with my black powder.