Black Powder Thread #1

[Richtee]

In effect, you're using the equivalent of an arbor press. An arbor press uses a lever and muscle power to do the pressing. A hydraulic press gets fluids into the mix in ways that I have never explored.

Lanseki would be ashamed of you Trag! ;{)

 

Just a fluid and a mechanical advantage, and a one way valve.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Richtee

[Yankie]

I am not sure if I posted this somewhere else, well anyway here it is. These are just some tests between stoichoimetric and standard BP ratios. I know there are many flaws in this testing procedure, I will try and make a more accurate test when its a bit cooler.

Heres the vid

[hondo]

has anyone( besides me the other day) make BP with Bamboo charcoal, and has any testing been done with some results? I only use my milled BP for core and end burning rockets and coating rice hulls, I use goex for lifting shells since I can get a pound for 11.00 at a near by wholeseller

[due559]

The first batch of BP i ever made was with bamboo charcoal (around 2 years ago), it had nice sparks but its speed varied for me because I usually milled in a Harbor Freight rock tumbler for 24 hours or more, I didn't think about consistency back then and I still don't when making rocket comp.

[Swede]

has anyone( besides me the other day) make BP with Bamboo charcoal, and has any testing been done with some results? I only use my milled BP for core and end burning rockets and coating rice hulls, I use goex for lifting shells since I can get a pound for 11.00 at a near by wholeseller

 

I made some bamboo charcoal, and then BP with it, and the results were not good. Bamboo is a grass. IIRC the charcoal is loaded with silicates and other undesireables which reduce its reactivity. This was a couple months ago.

 

I'd use it for stars or prime, but not for lift or burst.

[Richtee]

Quick question, folks... I have picked up some red gum. Awesome stuff! Supposing I want to bind a batch of BP with it/acetone instead of dex/water. What % would I use?

[Pretty green flame]

~1% as reccomended by Ned Gorski.

[Richtee]

Here is an article from Skylighter that outlines using red gum to make "high powered" BP. I

 

Thank you gentlemen! Nice article, that...

[Jwilson]

I have a question from a novice. I recently discovered (by accident actually) that my BP once its been wet with just water then allowed to dry and then crushed up performed faster then my just ball milled (rock tumbler) BP. Is it because the water allowed the nitrate to soak through the charcoal or something else? Could someone please explain why this is the case. Thank you

[pyrogeorge]

you mean granules?

[Mumbles]

After breaking it up into granules, it has a higher surface area. Straight from the mill it can be so fine that it acts as one solid unit, not allowing fire in between the individual particles.

[tentacles]

Jwilson: Mill dust is all superfine particles, and when you try to burn it, they end up blocking the fire's path inside the pile, so only the surface burns. If you granulate it (however method) it will burn much faster, because the fire can get to more of the BP at once.

 

If you want to granulate, add a little (2%) dextrin to the BP after milling, or before milling (doesn't matter, before is less work though) and then dampen only as much as necessary with 50/50 water/alcohol, then granulate through a screen. If you've got red gum, then that works even better than the dextrin, and you can granulate with 100% alcohol.

[Jwilson]

I do not think it is granulated as it was easily crushed back into a fine powder and I did nothing other then make a slurry of BP and water and let it sit for a few days. It is still slower than when I do granulate though but faster then my mill BP. I do understand how granulating works but this seems to be different. (although it may not be) Thanks for the replies

[andyboy]

Mixing water in your BP makes the Nitrate dissolve and become more intimately mixed with the Sulphur and Charcoal, this will speed up the burn rate compared to green-meal, yes.

[Swede]

The fastest BP I ever made used red gum, 2%, alcohol, was pressed hydraulically, and the resultant dense pucks were broken and screened. It's a lot of work, but it makes a BP to rival anything that you can buy, like Goex. You can even dust it with a bit of graphite and get those pretty black granules that flow so nicely.

 

An easier way is as Tentacles said, same process without pressing. Simply dampen your BP (the RG or dextrin is pre-milled into it), stir it up to distribute the liquid, and then, as it begins to dry, screen it. If you use dextrin, you don't need much water. It should not be soupy. It should not even LOOK watery; but the water and dextrin do their thing, the grains form, and allows the fire to move through the pile very quickly.

[whitewolf_573]

Granulate it also helps to make it burn more uniform and makes it more consistent,so when you light it ,will burn more or less at the same speed all times, no ?

 

So granulate it ,or corn it, makes it more reliable when you use it ?

 

when we talk of granulate the bp ,is related always with lift no ?, I mean , for other applications , granulate it could be bad ,as would make bp faster , no ?

[Miech]

I granulate all mill dust I make. Then I sieve it to different sizes, and the size of the grains determines what I'm going to use it for. Basically anything coarse (-4 +10 mesh) ends up as lift, finer BP (-10 +30 mesh) ends up as break charge or lift for cakes, and anything really fine becomes prime and rocket fuel. I have to say that I rarely press and corn it, I usually make pulverone with it. Pressed and corned BP does not make good rockets, as it is hard to compact properly.

 

I found that fresh willow meal is outperformed by BBQ meal, until it gets granulated. When granulated with red gum, willow meal yields mediocre pulverone, but when using dextrin and water it outperforms commercial BP. BBQ pulverone is only food for lifting larger shells and for rockets. It won't get fast anyway. Results may not be reproducible though, and are likely to depend on used materials and methods.

[marks265]

So granulate it ,or corn it, makes it more reliable when you use it ?

 

 

I was always hell bent that corned powder was the best way to lift a shell. About a year ago I think it was hst45 that talked me into using pulverone for lift. After a year of time consuming corning I said this can't go on and finally did a head to head between corning and granulate. I shot 6" shells of the same type and could not tell the difference between lift types. All the shells were loaded a little on the heavy side and required screwing on my brass nuts to light 'em, but the result was still the same. So MY preference for lift is now pulverone (granulated) over corned. It is faster and easier to make it and wish I would have taken the time to prove it out sooner. Yea corned looks pretty but I don't have that kind of time anymore.

Like all pyro, repeatability goes a long way (for MATERIALS and manipulation) and everyone has to find what works for them through trial and error. Then reliability is achieved.

 

To clarify the product of granulation I think pulverone and rough powder are also all one in the same as well. My process is 1000g of 75-15-10 powder with 5% dextrin or sgrs. IMHO red gum is a non value added ingredient especially when keeping things cheaper and I do not use it in any of my BP. I use lump willow C, ball mill for 1-1/2 hr, wet it, loaf it, then gently press it straight through 1/4" screen not letting it pile high.

[qwezxc12]

To clarify the product of granulation I think pulverone and rough powder are also all one in the same as well. My process is 1000g of 75-15-10 powder with 5% dextrin or sgrs. IMHO red gum is a non value added ingredient especially when keeping things cheaper and I do not use it in any of my BP. I use lump willow C, ball mill for 1-1/2 hr, wet it, loaf it, then gently press it straight through 1/4" screen not letting it pile high.

 

My method is very similar to Mark's except I use Alder C and 1.5% CMC as a binding agent in my lift. I use somewhere around 22-25% 75/25 water/EtOH to make my cake. I find CMC superior to Dextrin; it makes rock hard granules and doesn't affect the burning speed at all.

 

I sieve the granules and use +12mesh for lifting shells 5" and larger, -12 +20 for 4in shells and comets, and reserve the -24mesh for prime and piping fire into shells. The large mesh works great for shells at 1/16 the weight.

 

I use 2%RG/Alc granulated BP for breaking can shells now - it burns SO fast. I tired using it for lift, but it's too violent; I split a 3in mortar last summer when using RG BP to lift a mine. I used 18% the weight of the stars and it blew the mortar like a salute.

[marks265]

My method is very similar to Mark's except I use Alder C and 1.5% CMC as a binding agent in my lift. I use somewhere around 22-25% 75/25 water/EtOH to make my cake. I find CMC superior to Dextrin; it makes rock hard granules and doesn't affect the burning speed at all.

 

I sieve the granules and use +12mesh for lifting shells 5" and larger, -12 +20 for 4in shells and comets, and reserve the -24mesh for prime and piping fire into shells. The large mesh works great for shells at 1/16 the weight.

 

I use 2%RG/Alc granulated BP for breaking can shells now - it burns SO fast. I tired using it for lift, but it's too violent; I split a 3in mortar last summer when using RG BP to lift a mine. I used 18% the weight of the stars and it blew the mortar like a salute.

 

I think I'm brain farting here but I do not recognize "CMC". What animal is this please?

 

I know I'm getting lazy---anything +20 mesh goes in 3" shells or larger for lift and or break. Anything smaller gets used for other things or recycled back to pulverone.

 

Mark

[Mumbles]

Carboxymethyl cellulose. It's often used as it's sodium salt. It has the properties of turning whatever it's dissolved in into a goo almost. Very viscous, very sticky, keeps all solids in suspension. It dries very hard. Some are proponents of using it in blackmatch slurry. It keeps all the BP suspended in the slurry, and helps reduce flaking after the match is dry.

[marks265]

Carboxymethyl cellulose. It's often used as it's sodium salt. It has the properties of turning whatever it's dissolved in into a goo almost. Very viscous, very sticky, keeps all solids in suspension. It dries very hard. Some are proponents of using it in blackmatch slurry. It keeps all the BP suspended in the slurry, and helps reduce flaking after the match is dry.

 

 

Thanks Mumbles

 

I googled it and found some interesting uses that it has/had. Does not sound like anything too common but sounds like fun to play with should I cross paths with it!

[qwezxc12]

...Does not sound like anything too common but sounds like fun to play with should I cross paths with it!

 

 

mark,

 

It's readily available at ceramic suppliers - it's used to keep glazes in suspension. US pigment has it for $8/lb, Clay Art Center for $11, and Bailey Ceramic (never ordered from them) shows it at $5.25/lb.

 

At 1.5% in BP, a lb lasts a long time.

[marks265]

mark,

 

It's readily available at ceramic suppliers - it's used to keep glazes in suspension. US pigment has it for $8/lb, Clay Art Center for $11, and Bailey Ceramic (never ordered from them) shows it at $5.25/lb.

 

At 1.5% in BP, a lb lasts a long time.

 

 

Thanks a bunch for the heads up! At that rate some real justification can be had! Now that I had a few beers (oops, I mean time to think about it) I would like to try it for binding crossettes at lets say 1.5 to 2.5%!

 

I did google it earlier and found that it had some real interesting uses!!!

[zwdog922]

this might be slightly off topic.. but I was wonder if iron oxide could be used as an additive in black powder. I read that it increased the amont of gas produced and speeded up burn rate. If so, how much to use?