Black Powder Thread #1

[poisonkiller]

Hello!

I'm really pissed at my chemicals at the moment, maybe you can help me?

Okay, here's the story. I made myself some KNO3 (recrystallizing NH4NO3 and KCl) and tried milling some BP. Okay, so I milled it for 30 minutes (I know it's not much, but it's something) and it was a really fine powder. So I tried igniting some of it. It didn't really want to light, but when it did, it burned really slowly (like 1cm per second, maybe even 2cm). What could cause BP to be so slow? My powder doesn't seem to be "floaty", it sticks when I squeeze it a bit, maybe that's part of the problem?

So maybe somebody could help me? I'm really frustrated, since I've messed two days with my ball mill to get it even working, and now I can't get even half-decent BP.

[Miech]

I think there is still ammonium nitrate present in your potassium nitrate. Try recrystalizing it, that will yield somewhat less, purer KNO3.

 

The type of charcoal used and the milling time is also of great influence. With 30 minutes of ball milling you shouldn't expect it to be very fast.

[poisonkiller]

I think there is still ammonium nitrate present in your potassium nitrate. Try recrystalizing it, that will yield somewhat less, purer KNO3.

 

The type of charcoal used and the milling time is also of great influence. With 30 minutes of ball milling you shouldn't expect it to be very fast.

Hah, you are probably right about the NH4NO3 part! I made two rockets out of that crappy BP. They burned really slow, but made a tail and they seemed like they wanted to take off, but couldn't. Although the interesting part is, that one rocket produced hot dross, which made a little band when it hit the ground (NH4NO3?). I will probably go to a gardening shop and buy the 50 pound pack of KNO3, maybe it will be better.

[Mumbles]

Mill it much longer and report back to us. 30 min, even in a fully optimized mill still isn't nearly enough. Try at least 4 hours and see again. Inadequately milled BP will produce quite a bit of dross, just like AN.

[psyco_1322]

Green mix, unmilled bp, should have little if no dross at all. It wont have power and it wont be really fast but it sure will burn fine.

 

If you can go buy a bag, do it! Don't waste time and effort trying to make potassium nitrate. You will likely be very satisfied with what will come with good chemicals.

 

AN is likely to be the problem with it being wet feeling. Aslo, dont coat bp onto coco crispies, they will be wet forever.

[rev.redneck]

Why is the BP I made leaving Sulfur residue behind? I have never had that. Is it not milling long enough? I have never had this problem, it's sloooow!

[hst45]

Is the residue sort of reddish globs of crap? If so, it's sulfur. I'm just guessing since I don't know the purity of your raw materials or your milling procedure, but if you haven't changed anything I think that more milling time is the best plan to improve your product. It's impossible to look at a pile of raw BP and know the fineness of what you have but there is no down-side to extra milling to produce extra fineness.

 

If you're burning the raw millled powder it will of course be much slower than corned or "riced" BP. I wet mine and press it through a 10-mesh screen and it works fine. You probably know this already so I apologize if I'm covering ground that you already know. Good luck.

[rev.redneck]

There is a puddle of sulfur left, yellow with a little red spot on top. After hours more milling and granulated, it still produces the same result, could there be too much S in it? If so, should I add more KNO3 or more Charcoal?

[Richtee]

There is a puddle of sulfur left, yellow with a little red spot on top. After hours more milling and granulated, it still produces the same result, could there be too much S in it? If so, should I add more KNO3 or more Charcoal?

 

 

Well, I assume you used a scale to measure the ingredients- somewhere near 75 parts Nitrate, 15 parts charcoal, 10 parts sulfur, right? Adding anything would not be what you'd want to do.

 

Frankly, if it's been mixed and milled, I guess I can't see how this should be, unless you have a contaminated nitrate supply? What is the quality of your chems?

[rev.redneck]

yep, 75 KNO3 15 C 10 S. My KNO3 is 100% (should be anyway MSDS says so), I use the same sulfur I always use and my charcoal is also the same. I am thinking I miss Measured somthing, I think I will make a small batch again and see if the problem persist.

Thanks.

[Richtee]

yep, 75 KNO3 15 C 10 S. My KNO3 is 100% (should be anyway MSDS says so), I use the same sulfur I always use and my charcoal is also the same. I am thinking I miss Measured somthing, I think I will make a small batch again and see if the problem persist.

Thanks.

 

If the test batch is fine, I'd think ya muffed the S measurment. It'll be a pain in the ass, but you COULD take a known quan of the "faulty" batch and add a bit of nitrate and charcoal, and test... keeping track of what you added and PERHAPS salvage it. Or I bet it would work as a star base eh?

[Mumbles]

If the new batch turns out good, I'd just cut your losses. Use this batch as a prime or something. There is obviously something not right. Given this single isolated incident, and no deviations in chemical or proceedure, I wouldn't expect the chemicals to be at fault. It may also be a potassium product. When it forms pearls, they can be rather yellow or red from Potassium Polysulfides. This also would generally indicate a higher than normal level of sulfur though.

[rev.redneck]

My new batch is great, I must have screwed up somewhere with the other one, I did pack a rocket with it and it did not try to leave ground. Oh well I now have 1/4 lb. of crappy BP to tincker with.

Thanks.

[psyco_1322]

Add a bunch more charcoal, mill it again, throw in some Ti, and makes some comets.

 

My guess is you did a 75 10 15 instead of a 75 15 10, mixing up your sulfur/charcoal ratios.

[rev.redneck]

Yes I believe it would make a descent comet mix, and you may be right it must be ratio's.

[psyco_1322]

Given your 1/4 pound is about 100g. I would add in another 65g of charcoal. Dextrin to taste. Add 10-15g of Ti or your favorite compatible sparking metal. This will give you something around a Tiger Tail star with a nice white spark tail. Good luck making the best out of it.

[rev.redneck]

I agree. I was thinking aluminium, but what I have is rather course, not sure of mesh size.

[Richtee]

I agree. I was thinking aluminium, but what I have is rather course, not sure of mesh size.

 

Sacrifice 15 grams... I bet it rocks :{)

[psyco_1322]

I recently tested some bp + Al comets, using some home ground Al or two different mess sizes. One of about 80 mesh and the other of about 40 mesh. These are rough guesses of sizes, but close enough to make the point. The larger mesh made about one spark. The smaller mesh left a nice glittery tail behind the star, might be good for some streamers. Ti will work with any size you might have on hand. Magnalium is an option if you have it.

[rev.redneck]

I wish I had some Ti, or Magnalium. I cant seem to find any Mg, I do have plenty of aluminium though. So Ti mesh size does not matter all that much? hmmm...?

[psyco_1322]

Not really when it comes to making sparks. Really fine Ti will of coarse leave shorter sparks than a coarser Ti will. Mesh size comes more into play when you rolling stars. I have some Ti that looks like needles and would never roll, it is also a PITA to cut with. Larger comets is what it works best in, where it can lay flat during the pumping process.

 

On the other hand, some stars require much more attention to the type of Ti (ie: sponge, atomized, granular, flake, etc.) to get the desired effect.

 

I would say if your Al is at most the size of table salt you should be good.

[Mumbles]

Use and composition play a big role in the tail. The key for nice tails is to make the base mix (the BP ingredients) fuel heavy. It will preferentially burn the carbon first, and leave the metal behind to burn in the atmosphere. Titanium will do this regardless of composition, assuming it's not -325 mesh or something.

 

Given that your mix is already sulfur heavy, Aluminum might be the best bet. Most, if not all, glitter mixes are sulfur heavy. I can make no promises, but it's likely you'll get at least a shimmering type of glitter. Really any type of aluminum will work. Pretty much anything but dark flake should give a nice effect. Remember to add boric acid to the wetting water if you plan to use sodium bicarbonate.

 

Something along the lines of:

 

Mystery Mix: 100g

S - 5

C - 5

Aluminum - 12

A carbonate or bicarb - 7

Dex - 7

 

Assuming it was 15 sulfur and 10 charcoal it would give overall:

KNO3 55.15

S 14.71

C 11.03

Al 8.82

carb 5.15

dex 5.15

 

Total 100.00

 

 

Table salt is approximately -30+50 mesh or so. It will form a nice tail, but it may be too large for small comets. Thats on the order of the stuff needed for the breaking glass comets if granular. Flake of this mesh might be alright. If you just want a streamer, follow psyco's advice, and choke it down with a bit more charcoal. Glitter sized atomised Al will still give a tail, but the coarser the better. Perhaps it may be easier to let us know what kind of Aluminum you do have.

[rev.redneck]

Thanks everyone, I will try something maybe get some video, why not? my Al is from a bandsaw used in a factory to cut Al bars, it is finer than salt.

[psyco_1322]

That should work great. I've used very similar Al to make firefly before.

[trag]

I don't own a press. I press my lift with a vice.

 

In effect, you're using the equivalent of an arbor press. An arbor press uses a lever and muscle power to do the pressing. A hydraulic press gets fluids into the mix in ways that I have never explored.