Richtee Posted August 2, 2008 Posted August 2, 2008 I guess its time to head off to my "Mad Scientist lab" and see if I can put the knowledge to work. I again thank all of you who have helped educate me. Good luck and be safe!
Swede Posted August 2, 2008 Posted August 2, 2008 I just finished reading this entire thread,all 41 pages, and wish to thank everyone for the knowledge that has been imparted. I guess it is now time to try and see if any of it has sunk in.You read all 41 pages? So did I, except it was maybe 34 pages when I joined. This is one of those "forever" threads that will never die, as good BP is the foundation of fireworks. Suggestion - I don't know what your setup is, but if you have one of those small rock tumblers, be sure to give the mixture enough time to properly mill. Occasionally check to be sure the components are not clumping in the base or cap of the jar. There's a lot of info to absorb in this thread, but really, BP is so simple if you have a good mill. You toss the chems in, turn it on, and hours later, you have BP. The charcoal can be rough, the KNO3 prilled, it'll still come out flour-fine and hopefully fast burning. Have fun and good luck, please post some pics, and to echo Richtee, be safe. Respect the energy that is contained in the BP.
nickle Posted August 3, 2008 Posted August 3, 2008 Have fun and good luck, please post some pics, and to echo Richtee, be safe. Respect the energy that is contained in the BP. Swede & Richtee thank you for the kind words and encouagement but I think I gave the wrong impression with my post. I didn't read the whole thread in one sitting and think I was good to go. I read 4 or 5 pages take some notes and if it didn't make sense go back and read it again. The idea I had was that you have to be able to make the basic ingriedent first with some competence before moving on to other things. I think it may take me awhile to move on since I am a bit of a perfectionist. I would like to be able to have a quality product and be able to reproduce it everytime or at least almost everytime.
TheSidewinder Posted August 3, 2008 Posted August 3, 2008 Repeatabillity is the key to good results, agreed. And for BP, getting good results means (among a few other factors) correct Ball Milling. A genuine Ball Mill will produce great BP in several hours. A Rock Tumbler will do the job just fine, it just takes a lot longer mill time. As you may have read, I use a Lortone tumbler and mill for a full 24 hours. My hottest BP, using Willow charcoal, is the equal of commercial 2Fa. You will get the same results if you use the same "ingredients". Good luck!
pyrogeorge Posted August 24, 2008 Posted August 24, 2008 Your opinion about my granulated BP.?charcoal is from grapevine wood
TheSidewinder Posted August 24, 2008 Posted August 24, 2008 Nice job! And yeah, that did look pretty darn quick. I'd try it in a shell now, first as burst (with commercial lift), then as lift and burst. Do you have a good (free) supply of grapevine?
Mumbles Posted August 24, 2008 Posted August 24, 2008 Just for a bit of clarification, your powder didn't burn in 0.9 msec. It was 90 msec if the times included were correct. A millisecond is 1/1000th of a second, not 1/10th. That is still quite fast though.
pyrogeorge Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Yes, you are right Mumbles,i made a mistake, i was thinking to write 0.9 sec or 90 msec,and finally i wrote 0.9msec Also i have video programe and it shows msec per msec @ Thesidewinder yes i have plenty of grapevine woods Thanks for your replys
Swede Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Good job pipipi. I remember when you were working on your first batch. It looks like you really did your homework! That looks to be awesome quick BP, nicely done.
s1xfiv3tw0 Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 I have a question with granulating. I have recently started granulating my black powder. I heard it gives more consistent results + easier to work with + faster. I am sure someone has asked this before, but why exactly is this? And when I make my rockets I ram the granulated powder so it basically goes back to dust. Would there be any difference between granulated and ungranulated for a rocket?
oskarchem Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Well, the speed is due to the air spaces between the graines. The bigger the grain is, the faster it will be. And also, when you wet the poxder you incorporate the KNO3 and S into the pores of the charcoal. So eaven if you ram the granulated powder, the performance will be better than if you ram meal powder.
Bonny Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Well, the speed is due to the air spaces between the graines. The bigger the grain is, the faster it will be. And also, when you wet the poxder you incorporate the KNO3 and S into the pores of the charcoal. So eaven if you ram the granulated powder, the performance will be better than if you ram meal powder. Also, when ramming fine powders, they tend to behave almost like a liquid and shoot up around the rammer, making a mess.
Mumbles Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Two small corrections to what Oskarchem said. First of all, the smaller the grain is, the faster it will be. There is a higher surface area for increased reactivity. This doesn't carry through completely. At some point the grains become so small that they essentially behave as a single grain, and block fire from passing between the individual grains. Secondly, sulfur does not dissolve in water. It is not becoming incorporated into anything. There is actually more proof that nothing actually enters the charcoal pores than there is that the pores absorb the chemicals.
PyroMedia Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 ok, i am Confused/ Pissed off on a massive scale. I go to an art store, buy some willow air float charcoal, come home make some BP with 75:15:10 and throw it in the mill for 4 hours, then i try to light it and it wont even fucking ignite. Help?
Mumbles Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 Really fine BP doesn't ignite very well. Try burning the paper it's sitting on. That usually gets it going off.
psyco_1322 Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 ^ Still you should have got it to light. Maybe you bought graphite and not charcoal, lol. Sounds like something is seriously not right.
PyroMedia Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 (edited) it light, jsut took a bit of nudging it with my lighter. i granulated it and its very nice now also used the same stuff before, but with stump remover and it worked fine. but i actually milled it now. Edited September 8, 2008 by PyroMedia
Arthur Posted November 14, 2008 Posted November 14, 2008 Is there a chart correlating the Fs and Cs of BP granules with a mesh size? And a chart of optimum sizes for typical uses?
Mumbles Posted November 17, 2008 Posted November 17, 2008 http://www.vk2zay.net/composition/3 As far as chart for optimum sizes, there isn't one. People would much rather just stock one or two, and make those sizes work. It's usually 2FA for lift, and 4FA for lift and break of small shells (3" and under). If you're Chinese, it's 4FA for everything.
Mumbles Posted December 20, 2008 Posted December 20, 2008 Does anyone have any experience with ball mills from Hobby Fireworks? I might have a line on one at a pretty good price that I was thinking about getting one. Would it be acceptably efficient? BP in 4 hours or so?
tentacles Posted December 20, 2008 Posted December 20, 2008 Isn't it basically a copy of Lloyd's design? I remember Lloyd asking that he put a copy of his book with each unit (for a small royalty) and the response from HF was more or less, "GFY". My understanding is that they're reasonably good mills. No idea what size jars they can handle or how many, etc.
Mumbles Posted December 20, 2008 Posted December 20, 2008 The ones I've seen look like 1 jar, and the jar is 1 gallon (6"x8" long), so around a kilo of BP. I could probably make wider shorter jars and put a couple on there. I do have some 12" PVC, but I have other plans for that.
FrankRizzo Posted December 20, 2008 Posted December 20, 2008 The ones I've seen look like 1 jar, and the jar is 1 gallon (6"x8" long), so around a kilo of BP. I could probably make wider shorter jars and put a couple on there. I do have some 12" PVC, but I have other plans for that. Yep, they're reasonable quality mills with optimum RPM. They can accept up to 8" ID PVC jars.
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