Black Powder Thread #1

[''']

Wow I didnt know that ceramic generate sparks. Every day something new . And crazyboy25 I didnt say that antimony trisulfide is used in BP formulas but in pyrotehnical compositions that are obviously including glitter compositions.

 

Have a nice day.

[pudidotdk]

Ceramic Media:

The most common commercially made media is made from various types of ceramic. Ceramic media can be purchased in a variety of shapes and sizes, including radius ended cylinders, balls, cones, ribbed balls and others. Ceramic media features very smooth and hard surfaces that optimize milling. It is also the most common option for those who can not manufacture their own media.

 

Some people have reported chipping problems with ceramic, but in general this is not an issue. Ball mills do not mill via impact, unless they are improperly designed, so this is generally not a problem. Media with sharp edges or other surface features prone to chipping should not be used.

 

The most commonly raised concern about milling with ceramic media is the risk of sparking. There are many types of ceramic media, and some may contain silica particles which could produce sparks, but for the most part this is not a problem. The key is to know the type of media that you have and purchase it from a well known manufacturer such as CoorsTek, who claim that their media does not spark.

 

Even when using a non-sparking type of ceramic media, milling metals such as titanium or steel could result in impurities becoming lodged in the ceramic pores, contaminating the media with impurities that introduce a sparking hazard. While used ceramic media can be purchased for under $3/lb from some suppliers, the lack of knowledge about prior use would raise concerns in this area.

 

Another test you can perform is to take your media into a dark room and strike it against each other to check for visible sparks. Some people have reported orange sparks during this test, while others report nothing. Note that some forms of light output known as triboluminescence actually produce "cold sparks" that are incapable of causing accidental ignition. However, any visible sparks should cause concern.

[crazyboy25]

Wow I didnt know that ceramic generate sparks. Every day something new . And crazyboy25 I didnt say that antimony trisulfide is used in BP formulas but in pyrotehnical compositions that are obviously including glitter compositions.

 

Have a nice day.

Trade Name: Antimony III Sulfide CAS #: 1345-04-6

Formula: Sb2S3

Synonyms: Antimonous sulfide, antimony glance, antimony orange, antimony sesquisulfide, antimony sulfide (DOT),

antimony trisulfide colloid, antimony vermilion, black antimony, C.I. 77060, C.I. pigment red 107,

crimson antimony, diantimony trisulfide, lymphoscan, na 1325 (DOT), needle antimony.

II HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS

Hazardous Component % OSHA/PEL ACGIH/TLV

Antimony Sulfide 0-100 N/E or N/A N/E or N/A

III PHYSICAL

 

antimony sulfide and trisulfide are the same

 

and i was refering to invisibleworlds comment that

Try antimony trisulfide as the sulfer catalist.

[psyco_1322]

Ebay sellers often resell gardening sulfur as good pyro grade, it is usually high in acid content and can cause problems in formulas that have nitrate and Al. Just buy sulfur from a chem supplier. Dont take the cheap route with the cheap things, its not worth it sometimes.

 

Can you really use antimony trisulfide in place of sulfur for a hotter bp?

[Dman65]

If you want good deals on ballmills, go to harborfreight.com and sign up for thier catalog. They are always running sales on them. I picked up a double drum one for $24.00 two weeks ago. they sell them as rock tumblers. also got a great hydrolic 12 ton arbor press for only $109.00. lots of other stuff too.

Do the rock tumblers work as acceptable ball mills?

[crazyboy25]

no and you would add it with sulfur as a catalyst but it would be BP then now would it?

[psyco_1322]

Guess your right, it wouldnt be bp. But im not going to mess with it.

 

And I dont think that a vibrating polisher is going to mill anything.

[BPinthemorning]

Psyco, a rock tumbler is the same thing as a ball mill, but they are usualy very low power, and will be inefficient. So it will work, but it will take longer than a real ball mill.

[psyco_1322]

Ya but his link went to a vibrating polisher type, I have one and im sure it wont mill shit! It barly polishes. But ya a rotary tumbler would work, as thats what I have.

[FrankRizzo]

As it's been said, most rock tumblers are cheaply made, underpowered, and don't rotate anywhere near the optimum speed for an efficient ball mill. Rock tumblers are rock tumblers not ball mills...they are designed for a completely different interaction between the materials inside the barrel. About the only thing they are useful for is the rubber barrel, as almost the entire drive train (motor, pulleys, belts, etc.) will need to be replaced to bring the rotation speed up to the optimal range.

[mormanman]

As it's been said, most rock tumblers are cheaply made, underpowered, and don't rotate anywhere near the optimum speed for an efficient ball mill. Rock tumblers are rock tumblers not ball mills...they are designed for a completely different interaction between the materials inside the barrel. About the only thing they are useful for is the rubber barrel, as almost the entire drive train (motor, pulleys, belts, etc.) will need to be replaced to bring the rotation speed up to the optimal range.

My rock tumberal I could replace the small pulley and it made it a lot faster. I made it out of a credit card and thread spool.

[psyco_1322]

sorry about HE's BP. I forgot a period i meant don't add anything like antimony sulfide to BP because then it has different properties and isn't really BP. antimony sulfide is used in glitter formulas not black powder. if the point was to make the fastest powder you could just ad flash or an HE to it but then it wouldn't be BP. Black powder has certain properties that will change when you add anything to it.

Just why the hell would you add and HE to black powder to make it burn faster? If you practice this your going to have a short life span.

[crazyboy25]

ok... someone asked if there was anything other than kno3 sulfur or charcoal that could be added to make BP faster invisibleworld said antimony sulfide i said dont add anything to BP other than those three because that will change the properties of black powder if the purpose was to make the fastest powder possible people would use BP they would use flash or whistle or add High explosives to BP but then it wouldn't be black powder.

[psyco_1322]

Ya you dont go mixing in something like d salts to your LE comps to make them burn faster, you should be shot in the foot for even thinking of that, let along posting it as an acceptable idea.

[frogy]

Potassium Chlorate, Dark Al, and Sb2S3 makes some nasty ass flash... But Sulfur\Sulfides + KClO3 isn't very smart

 

Lol that guy at PGI carrying around his PET tub of KClO3\Sulfur... scarry...

 

I'm pretty pissed at Discount Pyro... I got my perchlorate and stuff last Thursday.. Very great quality... But my additional order of Sodium Benzoate, Red Iron oxide, stront. nit, ... ... ... was supposed to ship a day after my first one (supposed to ship last Tuesday)

 

Now she tells me she'll ship it tomorrow...

[invisibleworld]

As it's been said, most rock tumblers are cheaply made, underpowered, and don't rotate anywhere near the optimum speed for an efficient ball mill. Rock tumblers are rock tumblers not ball mills...they are designed for a completely different interaction between the materials inside the barrel. About the only thing they are useful for is the rubber barrel, as almost the entire drive train (motor, pulleys, belts, etc.) will need to be replaced to bring the rotation speed up to the optimal range.

Hi,

The turning rock tumblers that Harbor freight sells are made buy the same company and the same as the ones sold by Pyrocreations , United nucular, and other pypo sites. Not the vibrater ones. those won't work. as for the speed, they work slow enough that the media and mix isn't held to the walls by centrifical force and, and fast enough that they mix and grind the mix correctly, that is what they are for. They are a good deal, honest. I kid you not, they are exactly the same ones. For small batches of coarse. a pound or so mix.

[poizzin]

Yes I got a dual cannister from Harbour for $29.00 runs wonderful

[Dman65]

Yes I got a dual cannister from Harbour for $29.00 runs wonderful

May I ask what kind of media you are using in them and where you obtained the media?

 

Thank You

[FrankRizzo]

As it's been said, most rock tumblers are cheaply made, underpowered, and don't rotate anywhere near the optimum speed for an efficient ball mill.  Rock tumblers are rock tumblers not ball mills...they are designed for a completely different interaction between the materials inside the barrel.  About the only thing they are useful for is the rubber barrel, as almost the entire drive train (motor, pulleys, belts, etc.) will need to be replaced to bring the rotation speed up to the optimal range.

Hi,

The turning rock tumblers that Harbor freight sells are made buy the same company and the same as the ones sold by Pyrocreations , United nucular, and other pypo sites. Not the vibrater ones. those won't work. as for the speed, they work slow enough that the media and mix isn't held to the walls by centrifical force and, and fast enough that they mix and grind the mix correctly, that is what they are for. They are a good deal, honest. I kid you not, they are exactly the same ones. For small batches of coarse. a pound or so mix.

This is a voice of experience telling you differently. Just because they are sold by other sites as "ball mills" does not make them ball mills...it makes *you* a sucker. Let me know what you think of those cheap pieces of shit once you've broken a few belts. I too started with a Lortone QT6 rock tumbler years ago, but quickly realized that others were getting much better powder with shorter milling times (4hr instead of 24hr) using a properly constructed unit.

 

Question for ya: What is the inner diameter of your barrel, and what RPM does it turn at when loaded?

[qwezxc12]

From what I remember from my old Lortone 33B the barrel is something like 4.5" and turned 60-ish rpm. IIRC, optimal speed for that size barrel and .5" media is around 90rpm.

[Mumbles]

I have to agree with Frank Rizzo on this one. I have one as well, one of the Chicago brand ones sold at Harbor Freight. They will get the job done, just not very quickly. Using pre-ground chemicals, I need about 8 hours to get good black powder. This is with 200g of comp and .5" lead balls about half full. The 3lb ones spin around 20-30 rpm IIRC. This far from efficient. Realistically, I should be able to turn out powder in 2-4 hours. This is with good willow charcoal. With commercial airfloat, it does take more like 24 hours.

[invisibleworld]

Yes I agree about the belts... I just picked up a vacuum cleaner V belt though. Not having tried anything else I have notheing to compare with, but It still makes great BP I was not in a rush. overnight is fine with me,as for the price... Why pay $59.00 for the same thing at Harbore Freight for $19,00?

[Mumbles]

Just a trick. There is an O-ring that is sold at most major hardware stores for use in water purification unit. It just happens to be a perfect fit for the 3lb sized rock tumblers. I've had it on my mill for over a year, and haven't broken it yet.

[invisibleworld]

Yes I got a dual cannister from Harbour for $29.00 runs wonderful

May I ask what kind of media you are using in them and where you obtained the media?

 

Thank You

The media I use is ceramic. it is made for firework use and I use it only for each chemical seperatly. One batch for BP, one for Ammonium Perc. One for Barium nitrate, etc. It is sold on e-bay item number .....Item number: 190153703836 in the search tool.

[LGM]

This seems like the best place to put this. Has anyone else noticed a decent increase in burn speed when powdered sugar is added to black powder? With lose meal powder it will change a whoosh to a poof, and when it is clumped together after waiting about an hour for it to absorb moisture from the air if will propel itself along the ground for a few inches.